Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Gina, welcome aboard to the show. I'm so happy to have you with us today.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Hey, Ari, thank you so much for having me here today. Such an honor to be here to chat and share my story. So excited for today.
[00:00:11] Speaker A: I want to jump right in. What is the difference between confidence and competence?
[00:00:18] Speaker B: I think confidence for me is knowing that you're capable, right?
Competence is showing that you're capable. So I hope that kind of helps it out because, I mean, you know, we are all competent, right? But sometimes we don't believe that we're competent or we're capable, capable enough to go out there and do what we're supposed to do. And so if we don't have that belief, then we're not going to have the confidence to make the first move, make mistakes, keep moving forward when times are tough. So that's how I see competent competence and confidence.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: And there's a problem, right, that one of these is easy to see, the other is not so easy to see. How does that affect us, you know?
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we live in a world where we want instant gratification. You know, we want to see the result right away. Especially in the world of social media, you know, if you get like 2 likes on your posts, everyone, then you're going to feel bad about yourself. Like, say, oh, I'm not popular. Nobody likes me. And so especially in entrepreneurship, too, right? I mean, we see a lot of perfect pictures on Instagram, traveling the world, living in big mansions, driving fancy cars, but people don't realize what people. What they had to go through to get there. And so that overnight success isn't really overnight. They had to put in the work day in and day out. And so that's something I realized that, you know, some, like, especially in entrepreneurship, it's a little bit more of a long game, right, Versus the instant gratification. And I think if we remind ourselves and listen to other people's stories of how they were able to get to the success they were at, then we realize it's just. It's part of the process, right? And I know it's. It's hard to see that because we're doing the work and we feel like nothing's happening. But I also believe, you know, it's a small, daily, actionable steps that really yield the big results, right? You look at, you know, really successful people like Michael Jordan, right? He took a thousand shots that didn't go in the basketball to become the greatest player, player in the world. Or Thomas Edison found 10,000 ways for a light bulb not to work or even J.K. rowling, right, got rejected by what, 50 publishers before Harry Potter got accepted. So being able to hear these things makes me realize I'm on the right track.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: My favorite one is WD40, the lubricant, the oil. It's actually called WD40 because there were 39 failed formulas before they got to that 40th formula. One of my favorite sayings is that, you know, it took me 10 years to become an overnight success, right? So. And again, it goes back to these things of what we can see. We don't see the 10 years of failure. What we see is that, you know, that, that, that newspaper where, oh, you know, Forbes Person of the Year, Entrepreneur of the Year. Right. That's the things we see. We don't see the 10 years of failure.
I wanted to ask you, you wrote a book, the Tao of Self Confidence.
And if I may ask you a personal question, what drove you to write that book?
[00:03:27] Speaker B: You know, it's so funny because I never really set out to write a book, especially for a major publisher like Wiley.
You know, the name the Tao of Self Confidence actually came from my own podcast, which I started in 2015, interviewing over 800 women on this topic of confidence. Because back then when I was dealing with my own confidence issues, I couldn't find any resources that specific specifically also catered to Asian women. Right. In Asian culture, we're told to never make any noise, stay in the background, just do as you're told. And because of that, we go through so many self confidence issues, mental health issues. You know, we've been told if we don't talk about it, it never happened. So. And representation was very important for me as well. You know, being an Asian woman growing up in Toronto in the 1990s, not seeing anybody that looked like me in the media also hurt my confidence. Feeling like, I don't think I can do this because I don't see anybody else. And every person's different, right?
For some people, representation is important. Like, for me, it was important because I wanted to see people that look like me succeed. And so the podcast also served as representation. Being able to interview so many Asian women from around the world, their stories of how they're able to forge their own path, overcome obstacles, and thrive. And as much as I love podcasting, and I know, you know, it's a labor of love, it's also still a very small platform compared to other forms of media. So during the pandemic when we were all locked down, I realized that I needed to expand my visibility, put myself out there, and I didn't know what that looked like. Right. And out of nowhere, books kind of came into play. You know, it started with a self published, co authored book called Asian Women who Boss up, which is part of a book series called Women who Boss up, where we highlighted the stories of 18 Asian women and their journey. Right. And then what, really, what I really love about it is the COVID because you see 16 Asian women's faces on the front cover, which is very rare. Right. And being able to write that book and market that book and promote my message with that book led me to writing this first book because the publisher actually reached out to me asking if I wanted to write a book about Asian women leadership and international leadership. And part of me was like, are you, are you sure I'm the person? Like, to be honest, at that time, like, I don't even know what leadership looks like. Right. I mean, what is the definition of being a leader? And I almost didn't take it because I felt like I was a fraud, I wasn't good enough. And you know, imposter syndrome plays a huge role in our lives. Right. And it wasn't until I had a group of people telling me, like, write it, I was like, okay, right. I mean, I complain about representation and if I go, don't go out there and do it, then I'm also a big hypocrite. So I said yes. I didn't have a full manuscript, I gave an outline, I got the green light. I had to write this book in less than three months for it to come out on time.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:06:22] Speaker B: And yeah, now, now I have a second book coming out next May called Bridging the Confidence Gap. So I don't. Yeah. And, and you know, when I say I didn't set out to write a book not because I didn't believe in myself, it's just more like I just didn't think it was really possible. Like being in North America, you know, you look at the publishing industry, it's still, you know, mostly Caucasian, like 75% of the whole industry. So like, for me to take one little spot, like, I didn't, I just didn't think it was going to happen. But I'm glad it did happen because now I can show other people that it's possible. And the more we can show up, the more others can see that belief in themselves as well.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Tell me a little bit more about the book. What are the, say, key insights or learnings that you took away?
[00:07:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, first off, you know, I think trauma is something that we rarely talk about, right? That happens to each and every one of us, regardless what that trauma looks like. And, you know, people constantly ask me, how do you build self confidence? How do you have more confidence in your life? And I can show you 101 different ways to build confidence. But really the most important part is, you know, what is really stopping you from being confident, right? Maybe there's a trauma in your life that really stops you from moving forward. And we have to learn to work through our unresolved trauma so we can really show up as our best self, right? Because if we don't work through it, then it's going to control us. Some of us aren't even aware that we have trauma in our life that's stopping us. Some of us don't realize that we're not only carrying our own trauma, but the trauma of our parents, grandparents, and so on. You know, intergenerational trauma is really prevalent, so especially in our culture. Um, so, so really this is a guide to kind of a beginner's guide to kind of learn to like, figure out, you know, what is the trauma that's stopping you if you're not aware of it. You know, how can we find that, right? Maybe by asking your family members or asking the right questions, or even seeking a mental health therapist, finding ways to heal from it, learning to practice self love and self care, because that's something we're not taught to do. And then we can start building that confidence that we, we crave for. But really it's all about getting to the root cause as to why we resist, why we fear, why we have low self confidence, why we feel like we're not good enough. And you know, it really stemmed from a report saying that in, in 2021, when it comes to high C suite roles, Asian women I think represented like 2.7%, which is very low. So it's like, why do we have one of the lowest numbers? And it just was. This is why, like, you know, trauma is something that we're not taught to do. To talk about mental health is still a taboo in our culture and in most cultures as well. And we have to do things differently, right? We've been taught the same thing over and over again for like generations or dynasties even. And obviously that's not working, right? Because there's so many people out there who are hurt, who are feeling like they're not good enough to feel like they need the approval of others to feel whole and not realize that we just need to work on ourselves. You know, really work the good, bad and ugly. I mean, the healing part of our trauma is never fun. Right. It, you know, but it's necessary so we really can move on to move up as the leader that we're meant to be or even just tackle the things that we've been dealing with.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: One thing that comes across quite often is that almost any guest that talks about self improvement, it seems key to that journey is self awareness.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: And, and you talk about this about. Well, first of all, figure out what's holding you back.
What have you seen as maybe tools or tactics for people to become more self aware?
[00:10:13] Speaker B: I think surrounding yourself with people who are also self worth is important because, you know, who you surround yourself with is really important. You know, when they can, when. Because sometimes we have a blind spot. Right. So if we have a blind spot, we're not aware of it. And so we need people that can help us tackle those blind spots so we can become self. Aware. You know, just because the term is self, aware, that it doesn't mean we have to do the work by ourselves. Right. We can ask for help or receive help when necessary. You know, especially in our culture, we're not taught to ask for help or receive help because it's seen as a weakness or a handout. And so we're always afraid to do that. And we feel like we have to figure everything out by ourselves, but really we don't have to. Right. There's, there's so many resources out there that can teach you how to be self aware, to be able to ask you the right questions, be able to, you know, attend self development seminars that can help you do that. I mean, I was able to do that. I mean, I, I share my story that in kindergarten, I failed kindergarten in the Philippines for coloring outside the lines. Like, I had to literally redo kindergarten, move to another school, all because I couldn't color one photo within the lines. And because of that, that really affected me into my adult life because I felt like everything I touched, I was just an instant failure. So I was always afraid to just try anything out. And it wasn't until that class or that seminar that made me realize, like, why do I feel this way? Why do I always feel like I'm a constant failure? It's because of that one moment in my childhood where I failed kindergarten for coloring outside the lines. And if I didn't do the personal development work, I, you know, it made me realize that I, I didn't fail. Right. Someone's opinion, thought I failed, but really I didn't fail. I was just meant to do things outside the lines. Right? I was just meant to do some things that are different, that's unconventional, that's not considered the norm, whatever that looks like. And so being able to realize that made me feel a lot better. And it made me realize I can move on. Right? I can move forward. I have the confidence. Because failure is not the end of all ends. Failure is just feedback. Right? Every single successful entrepreneur or person of influence has gone through some form of failure in their life, and it made them stronger and helped them reach to that goal that they were searching for. So I think, you know, having support is really important to do that, uh, because, like I mentioned, just because we have these blind spots that we can't see.
[00:12:42] Speaker A: Of course, that's such an interesting topic because we have a certain culture of being supportive.
And what that often means is being positive and encouraging. And we, we actively try to, to avoid what might be perceived as criticism or pointing out somebody's blind spot, because that kind of is an uncomfortable spot to be in. And there's this conflict between, I want to support you and I have no actual incentive to point out your blind spots because that might hurt you, it might hurt me. But this bigger point of helping you of your journey of finding your blind spot, then that doesn't happen. How do we counter that very natural want of people to support you no matter what. But on the other hand, no, I want to get better. I want to learn.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think it's really situating yourself with people who really want the best for you. And that also means, you know, you have to learn to hear what you need to hear versus what you want to hear. Right. They say truth hurts. And so. And you don't have to be mean about it. You can just be like, hey, I noticed something about this. You know, this could be the reason why you're, you're, you're struggling or why you're resisting, right? Especially when they come seek that help. They have to understand that it's not going to be, you know, rainbows and butterflies. It's going to be ugly sometimes. Right? It's not going to be pretty. And so I think if we have that mindset, knowing, like, we're going to have to learn that there's good and bad in our journey, and we have to learn to accept it and work through it and five, find ways to improve it. So I think if we, we go, go in, go in with that mindset it makes things a lot easier because, I mean, I can't help you. If you just want to learn, hear what you want to hear, right? Then we're both wasting each other's time and effort, and there's no real progress. There's no real work that's happening. But if someone tells you with love, like, no, you need. This is what's. This is what's wrong. This is what's stopping you. Let's fix this, then we can really do that work.
[00:14:55] Speaker A: I think that's so valuable.
Is there simple tools or techniques?
[00:15:02] Speaker B: The situations that we have in our life, they're there for a blessing or a lesson. So even if you think that situation is bad, I always ask myself, what's the lesson that I can learn from here? It's not necessarily bad.
We just need to learn from it. And it helps us, you know, move forward, become stronger. So that's how I approach things, right? Like, I can meet a person and feel like, oh, you know, I feel like we can be connected. I feel like we can get along. There's something there. Even though I don't know what it is, I just know it's there.
And then the more I get to know that person, I realize, okay, I understand why we were meant to. Meant to meet.
[00:15:41] Speaker A: I love that. And you mentioned before, you know, asking for help. Well, why is that so difficult for us?
[00:15:48] Speaker B: I don't know. I mean, culturally, for us, it's difficult because we've been taught the same thing over and over again, right? It's seen as a handout, seen as a weakness. And because of that, you know, we. We shy away from it. And even until now, I still, I still have issues asking for help. I actually have a bigger issue, receiving help. I. And, and maybe this is not the great way, the greatest thing to say, even though I talk about confidence a lot, but I think it's fine, right? I mean, I'm human. I. I'm not 100% confident all the time, but I have the tools and resources to help me pick myself back up when times are tough. So the receiving help was really hard, right? Because I'd be talking to people and they're like, what can I support you with? And then, like, my anxiety comes up and I'm like, oh, my gosh, if I ask for help, they're going to think I'm weak. They're going to think I'm no good. They're going to think I'm a fraud. And really, you know, if people want to help you, like, be okay to receive it, right?
The first time I was able to say, yes, I'll take it, you know, it was life changing, right? And you don't have to be in this journey alone. Like, we can have support for each other because that's how we can move forward, right? Not doing it by ourselves, but in unity, right? When we have aligned values and a mission to just make this world a better place.
I believe it takes a village.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: So I love that. And there's this contradiction, right, between wanting to be strong and people maybe wanting to engage with us because we're strong. And then on the other hand, you know, being vulnerable and being willing to say, yes, I need your help right now. How do you balance those two things? Because it's clear that there's no simple answer.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: Yeah, there is no simple answer. And I don't even know if there's such a thing as balance.
I think we just need more authenticity in this world, right? I mean, social media is a great tool. Social media is also a bad tool, right?
You know, if we don't have the right tools and resources to work on ourselves, you know, personal development, then it can get to us, right? We see this, like, perfectly curated photo of someone, you know, living their life on the beach or someone with the perfect relationship. And I'm not saying all, all photos are bad or good. I'm just saying, you know, you can't take everything at face value, right? We don't know what happens behind closed doors. And so I, like, I actually resonate to people more who just talk about the things they go through, like the hot mess that they go through and they're still standing. Why do you think reality TV shows are so popular? Right? Because they're like a hot mess. And people are drawn into that and realize, you know, sometimes it's okay for a hot mess, right? We. We can figure this out. We'll figure this out as we go. And so especially, you know, I'm in. I'm in my 40s, and a woman in her 40s is, like, considered expired, right? You know, ageism is huge. You know, we've seen articles where women have gone fired just because they had a strand of gray hair.
And I want to be able to show people, like, you know, your life isn't over at 40. In fact, it could just be beginning. And really, you can achieve anything you want at any age. Like the recent Olympics, we had like, a lady who started her career, her first, first Olympic, like, match or event at the tender age of 58, which I think is Amazing because it just shows us like it's never too late to go out there and. And follow your dreams or conquer your dreams, whatever that may look like.
[00:19:31] Speaker A: Sheena, this is such a wonderful discussion. We only have one scripted question.
[00:19:36] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:19:37] Speaker A: And it's a personal question and difficult one at that. If you had to go back 20 years to 20 year old something, Sheena, what would you advise her?
[00:19:48] Speaker B: I think I would advise her to be okay. To make mistakes, learn you're not perfect, that you are more than enough to go out there and make it happen.
You know, especially as women. We're always, we. I always. We always feel like we have to do everything perfect to a T. Not realizing, you know, nobody has it all figured out. Right. People are just doing it as they go. And the more we realize how capable we are of just doing things on the go, like it makes things easier. And I think I would also say just say yes. You know, if there's an opportunity out there, just say yes. Even if you don't know what that. How you're going to get there or how you're going to do it, just say yes. Just know you can figure it out.
[00:20:31] Speaker A: This concept of the value and the learning from failing, I think is so important, right? There's. There's so much for you to gain even if you are not successful. Right. So in essence, you know, just trying has its value.
Just ignore success, failure, it doesn't matter. The journey is important.
Sheena, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I really appreciate you.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been such a blast.
