Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sarah, thank you so much for spending the time with us today and calling in. Really appreciate it.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:00:07] Speaker A: So one thing that we were talking about was the impact of COVID and how Covid had for you definitely changed your life and the way that you kind of went about things. Could you just describe a little bit more about how that transition was for you and what you were able to learn through that process?
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Covid really upended my life in a lot of ways. And I feel like I have to be really intentional with how I talk about COVID because for me, it was a really insane but beautiful time. And there was, like, so much that came together for me in Covid that I hadn't previously. But I know it was not that experience for everybody.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: But leading up to Covid hitting and the world shutting down, I felt like my ultimate skill in life is keeping busy. And sometimes I try to outrun my anxieties by keeping a bit busy, and so I tend to do that to the extreme. And therefore, leading up to Covid, I was somewhere quite literally seven days a week in person. I got married in September 2019.
Right before I got married, we moved 2 hours away. We bought a house. We did all the big life things that you do in your twenties, which was really fun.
But where I was working at previously 2 hours away was paying for my school, and I was still finished at nurse practitioner school. And so I would commute every weekend, drive in at 04:00 a.m. on Saturday morning, and drive out at 08:00 on Sunday night.
Yeah, that was pretty intense. And then I would do nurse practitioner clinicals three days a week. And any remaining time, I was teaching at a local nursing college. And so I was live in person seven days a week for weeks and weeks and weeks on end. And we were talking about before. But I. I had the most divine timing with leaving my nursing job, because in January of 2020, I knew I was finishing up nurse practitioner school in May, and as a result, I would no longer need to do that commute. And so I put in my notice right in the middle of January. It was a six week notice, which landed me at the week that the world shut down, me leaving my nursing job, which I'm very grateful for because it was a very intense time, especially for someone with anxiety. There was. There's a lot of swirling emotions about being in health care at that time. Absolutely.
And so alongside that, my nurse practitioner clinicals, they canceled the rest of them. They said, you've done enough hours. Take your license exam. So I was like, all right, done.
And where I was teaching at moved everything online. And so I went from being somewhere seven days a week to being home seven days a week. And, you know, that sounded really nice in theory, because I never had that experience. I've never had that flexibility.
But it was a lot to take in, just having, like, that amount of time to yourself and almost, like, that level of solitude.
And so I decided to channel all of my energies into passing my nurse practitioner board exam that was rescheduled again and again and again. Lord.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: And that also fed my anxiety about taking the exam, because, you know, you gear up to take something almost anticipation, anxiety, and then it doesn't happen. And there was even one time that they rescheduled me by accident to a testing center, literally in Dubai. Like, it was like, not even in the country.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: You gotta fly.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Yeah. I was like, but really, though, I was, like, especially flying during COVID Like, really now? Yeah. But I ended up passing my nurse practitioner exam in May of 2020, and I started my business right after. And my life has never been the same in all the best ways.
[00:03:53] Speaker A: Thanks for just walking through that, because what I find really interesting is no matter what's going on in the world or life, it's funny how things are thrown your way in the exact way you need them to be thrown so that you could do something else. And so the way you were talking about your story, how you were given you were in person seven days a week to nothing, I mean, talk about that switch, because I personally, I do the same thing. I absolutely love being busy. I was finishing up my pharmd around that time, and so I also went from working two, three jobs and doing extracurriculars and leadership to nothing. So it was a switch for me, too. But how are you able to navigate that?
[00:04:33] Speaker B: I really leaned into my mental health journey then. I mean, I was already doing it before, but, like, I started taking five mile walks every day because I had the ability to do that, and I'd never had that before, and that was really cool.
But I really leaned into my business in that time, and I kind of recreated busyness for myself inadvertently.
So I'm finally. I feel like it's been almost five years now since I started my business, and I'm finally at a point where I can kind of rest a bit more. Yeah, I'm able to, like, have that journey for myself, but I really, during COVID I just recreated the busyness with my business, but I loved it so much. Like, it didn't feel the same as the year I had lived before, if that makes sense. Like, oh my gosh, so passionate, so excited and everything with my business. So essentially what my business does and did is it is helping you prepare to take your nurse practitioner exam. But kind of the unique spin on it is it's all about lowering your anxiety and building up your confidence. And so if you can pass nurse practitioner school, you can pass this exam. You just have to be able to believe in yourself that you can do that.
[00:05:46] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: And especially in a time of COVID where everyone is super anxious and there's all this uncertainty, every wish direction. And people are kind of channeling that into taking their exams and maybe they were having theirs rescheduled twelve times. Like, mine felt like it was, it was a really nice opportunity to help other people lean into their mental health too, their own healing journeys. And it was, it was really fun to watch it unfold.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: Ah, yeah, that again, just going back to like, giving you that space to be able to, you know, from that tragedy resulted this really beautiful thing for you. Can you just talk more about the mental health aspect because I was reading a little bit about, I do gentle.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: Stalking before these casual creeping?
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Yeah, just a little bit.
And so I saw something where you'd mentioned you had a panic attack and how that affected you. But would you be able to just talk more about your journey and how it inspired you to make this?
[00:06:43] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. So I discovered my junior year of college that I was one day going to be an educator because I was doing clinicals and my instructor came up to me and she was like, hey, you know, I want to pass medications with you. You know, at this point you're like halfway through your nursing program, so you don't always have to pass medications with the instructor anymore. Like, you can do it with the nurses, all this stuff. So I was like, oh, no big deal. And I really, like, prepared myself and what I felt was the best way possible. I looked up every medication, how I was going to give it all these different things. And so I knew why I was giving all these medications. I was ready for the quiz that I knew my instructor was going to throw at me because I was like perfectionistic type a nursing student. I feel like a lot of healthcare provider students are that way.
But all that being said, when we went to pull out one of the medications, it was due to be administered intravenous push. And it wasn't a skill I had done before and they said it was a skill that would just kind of pop up when you were in clinical, and you'd learn it then.
[00:07:48] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:07:48] Speaker B: And I just had the experience where it hadn't popped up for me. It was like, okay, no big deal. And I told her that was like, I want to give this safely. So, like, is this something you kind of walk me through? Let's do it together.
And it very, very quickly turned, and she was like, you know, by this point in your program, this is a skill that you should know how to do on your own, and you have about two minutes to figure that out. Whoa. Yeah.
So for someone who is very type a and anxious at a baseline and moderately overwhelmed, just as a human being yelled at was a lot for me because, you know, school was always kind of my thing, and I got a lot of validation from school. And so not being good at something and not knowing how to do something was really hard for me. So, like, it was hard to even tell her that, like, I needed the help in the first place, and then to get that reaction was even harder.
So, all that being said, I ended up having my first public panic attack during that clinical, and it was humiliating. It was from all the nurses and the nurses station, my fellow students, whole shebang.
And at the end of that clinical day, they said that they were going to give me this thing called an unsatisfactory. So, when you're in nursing school, you get. It's like a three strike system. You get three unsatisfactories, and you're out. So even though I'd never been taught the skill before, I got into unsatisfactory for not knowing how to do it. But then I got a second unsatisfactory for having a panic attack. And they were like, you know, honestly, like, you're so anxious. Like, we don't think you're gonna be able to be a safe nurse, and so it would be best for you to choose to leave nursing school on your own.
[00:09:30] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:09:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Talk about, like, I can't remember most of the rest of that day. Like, that's how fun. Like, it was just, like, this horrific moment. Like, I was like, my whole world is tumbling down.
[00:09:40] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:09:40] Speaker B: I'm halfway through nursing school. I pay for this thing myself. Like, there is no other route for me. I have to. To finish this sort of deal.
So I took a couple of days off, and I came back, and I was like, you know, I've decided I'm gonna stay. And we had to do this whole, like, action plan thing of every. Every assessment I did was with my instructor. Every med I gave moving forward with my instructor, it's very intimidating.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: But I tell you all this to say that was like, I know that I'm not the only student who is overwhelmed or anxious or wants to do things correctly. All the things. Right?
[00:10:16] Speaker A: Right. I.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: And so I decided then I was like, you know, I really, like, I would love to teach someday, and I would love to be able to turn this around. And I didn't know exactly what that was going to look like then, but both my parents are teachers, actually, and I'd always loved teaching, and that felt very synergistic for me.
In my senior year of college, I was actually asked by a different instructor to tutor someone, and that was kind of my first dabble into business, just inadvertently, because I was tutoring this one student, and it was going really well, and I was like, well, if I'm doing it with her, like I could do with other people. Right? Yeah. And so it very quickly turned into this thing of, I was tutoring one student, and by the end of that semester, I was tutoring 40 students.
[00:11:01] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:11:02] Speaker B: I was making my own schedule, and I had so much more flexibility, and, like, it was different, right? It was totally different.
And so as soon as I graduated nursing school, I ended up going back and getting my masters in nursing education.
And then immediately after that, I went back to be a nurse practitioner because I love learning and I love teaching. And I was like, even if I never used my nurse practitioner degree, I think it's gonna make me a better educator. So my employer paid for it. Why not?
[00:11:31] Speaker A: There's so much there that I personally relate to, painfully, being fully candid. I remember when I was my last year of pharmacy school, we also do something, do clinicals, but we do it for the entire year.
And so I will never forget I was at Walgreens, and I was literally, community practice has always been something that personally terrified me because I knew I was more business focused, like, I wanted to be in the industry, and there were therapeutic areas that I found fascinating, but not like that in the clinic, just in that setting. But I remember my preceptor at the time did not think I was doing well. Every single time I walked in, I felt the panic, and I could barely even say my own name. And I remember her calling me, and I was in, like, the middle of the toy section looking at Dora, and she was like, do you think you're passing this rotation right now and not.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: Thanks for the clue?
[00:12:28] Speaker A: Right. You know? And what really sucked was, during that time, it was like, I had no other free periods, so if I failed, I wouldn't have get my degree in time. Like, I would have had to be held back. So it just takes one instructor to really dash so much confidence that you build up for six years, or in your case, like four plus years. It's just.
I painfully relate. That's why I brought that up. I painfully relate. But so then taking that, then how has that shaped how you educate your students?
[00:13:02] Speaker B: When I was working, like, live and in person and teaching at this local nursing college here in Louisville, it was so fun for me to work with the foundation students in particular. Like, the students who are doing their fundamentals, the students who have never spoken to a patient in their lives and are scared to death. They're like, how do I just say my first name?
And I think of this one student in particular all the time who she very much was. I don't even know what my name is anymore. Like, when she walked in the patient room, she's like, I'm not comfortable doing my physical assessment because that's obviously what your fundamental skills that you learned in that first semester. And so me and her, when it was my turn to do an assessment with her, we would take a couple of laps first. So we would walk the unit together, and we would kind of walk through the process of, how are you going to do this assessment? And you just like, tell me verbally how you're going to do this and build up your comfort here, and then we can do it in the room together. And we've already built this rapport with one another before we ever take the staff in the room. And so, you know, you've got a buddy in the room with you. And I think that is very much my approach to teaching all the way around. Like, it doesn't have to be this big, scary thing. Like, I am your age still, essentially. Like, some of the students I taught, there was one clinical rotation I taught where my youngest student was ten years older than me. I was like 23 years old. Teaching students feels kind of crazy in some respects, but I just love teaching so much and it so intuitively came to me.
But all that being said, I just really, like, I look at my students as humans. I feel like sometimes when we get into this instructor role, like, we look at our students like they're robots and they can just automatically do things on command, and sometimes we can give them directives and they can do things on command, and sometimes they just need, like, a little extra compassion and grace and leniency.
And students really, really appreciated that. And that same student who I walked laps with, part of why I think about her so much is she came into a clinical rotation one time, and she was obviously not herself. Like, it was very distressed, and I was, like, a little overwhelmed, to be honest. Like, you all right, what's going on here? It was 2 hours into the clinical before she finally told me. Like, my house burned down last night, and I was too afraid not to come to clinical because I thought the school would throw me out. Like, not me as an instructor, phone or out. But you only get so many opportunities to miss all this stuff. And that is very much the culture of nursing schools in a lot of ways. Not all of them are that way, but that level of intimidation, I just, like, I don't think it has to be there in nursing education. And I know that there are plenty of anxious students out there, and these people are not siloed and isolated and alone. They just have to be able to find each other and, like, that connection point. And that was kind of the beauty of my business, too, of so much of it being virtual. Like, thousands of people came together in my Facebook group. Like, I'm so anxious about this exam. Like, I'm like, oh, it's totally fine. You're not the only one. Meet these thousands other people who are also anxious about this exam.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: Oh, man. I mean, there's so much there to even talk about. I also.
There are two things that I want to ask about, but they're, like, very different.
The first thing that I really wanted to touch upon is just going back to the culture surrounding. I don't even think it's just nursing schools, but nursing schools, in my opinion.
[00:16:24] Speaker B: Pharmacy schools, health care professions.
[00:16:27] Speaker A: Yeah, just healthcare professions. This maybe demonization is too strong, but this not encouragement around the mental health space and supporting our students within that aspect.
I mean, and I don't even really understand why. I mean, mental health is health. And wouldn't you want to support that with your students?
[00:16:48] Speaker B: Don't you want them to have a solid mental health foundation going into being a healthcare provider?
[00:16:54] Speaker A: It's kind of part of the job, for sure.
When you've been starting these reviews, from starting these reviews, how have you heard other people comment on how it's different or how it complements that rigid culture that a lot of healthcare students go through? Like, how has it, in a sense, kind of combated each other in a good way?
[00:17:17] Speaker B: I felt like for a lot of people, like, they're feeling seen for the first time because, like, when you're deeply enmeshed in that culture, you really do think you're like the only human going through this. And I think when you realize that there are other people that are having the same experience alongside you, it lets them go into practice a little bit easier because they're like, oh, it's not just me. And there's going to be someone else in my job that probably feels this way or lacks a little bit of confidence. They're figuring themselves out, all those things.
I think it just opens up a nice opportunity for more conversations among people as they move forward in their careers, whether they're becoming nurses, nurse practitioners, etcetera. But for a lot of my nurse practitioner students, because that's where my company started, it really was the first time. This one was like, it's okay to feel this way, and we're going to be all right, and we're going to figure it out. You know, one of my absolute favorite things in the world to say is everything is figureoutable. Like I said, yeah, everything's figureoutable. It's all right.
And just having someone to, like, hold your hand and say that to you is really cool. And I hope that it also helps to shift the culture moving forward because a lot of people that are going to continue on and become nurse practitioners are also going to become educators. Like, they kind of go hand in hand. And working as a nurse or a nurse practitioner, you're going to be a preceptor in some capacity. So you're going to be an educator whether you like it or not.
It just is stressed upon you.
[00:18:40] Speaker A: Right. It's just kind of part of the process. Like, when you've learned this, you kind of have to, in a sense, help up other people, which is the beauty of it, you know, sharing that and giving back in that sense.
So my second question actually was more regarding you and something you just said. Figureoutable. I saw in another interview you did that you mentioned being a curious novice when you were starting your company. Can you talk a little bit more about what that meant for you?
[00:19:07] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh, I love that phrase, too. Actually, I heard that in a podcast once.
Yeah, there's this podcast called my first million that I really love is you're like, starting your business and you are becoming a curious novice. But I feel like when you're starting a business, everyone thinks, like, you have to be an absolute expert in your field to be able to do it.
But I had already learned by being a 23 year old nursing instructor, you just got to be curious, and you've got to lean in, and you've got to show up prepared, obviously. And I probably did more preparations for the clinicals that I taught than I needed to, but I was curious. I love to learn. Being a nurse practitioner is a lifelong learning journey. And when I started my business, I very much leaned into that same energy because, I mean, I passed my exam at the end of May. I started my business right at the beginning of June, so there wasn't a lot of gap time, right.
I hadn't worked as a nurse practitioner yet. I had a job lined up, but I hadn't worked as a nurse practitioner yet. And I had a lot of imposter syndrome. And, like, back then, I never would have told you I hadn't worked yet. But teaching to an exam and living out real life are two different experiences. Number one and two, I already had rapport whether I knew it or not, because I passed the exam. And so everybody's just looking for someone else who have passed the exam, right?
So even though I was definitely not an expert yet and I'm not an expert today, people always think, like, I'm, like the be all, end all because I've created all these courses, and I'm like, no, I learn new stuff about medicine every single day because things always change. But if you're curious and you're willing to learn to, then you can figure it out.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: Oh, man, I just. And another thing, too, because I. God, I feel the same way. I mean, when you're entering into a new role, I think it's just part of the, again, the culture of, like, before you do anything, you have to know 100% what you're doing or else somebody could die. And it's like, damn.
[00:21:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:09] Speaker A: I don't know.
It's so heavy. And so being able to so radically challenge that and be that curious novice and walk in and do it anyway and figure it out. Give yourself that permission.
It's crazy and it's bold. So along those lines, because you're saying you'd packed battle imposter syndrome, what are some pillars of success? You'd say that really helped you in those early years?
[00:21:37] Speaker B: I would say when I first started my business, there was just a pillar of excitement and passion because it was like, this is the thing that I've always wanted to do. I've always wanted to educate, and now I get to do it at mass scale with all of these people. Like, how freaking cool is that? And so there was just almost, like, an energy of fun in the beginning.
But I think, like, I think where people get trapped a little bit in business is like, you feel that initial spark of excitement and, like, you chase that for a little bit, but then, like, you lose the consistency behind it. And so there were several different little Facebook reviews at the time to prepare for your nurse practitioner exam. So there's, like, the old school version, which is like the two day conference style, which pivoted to webinar during COVID which wasn't a solid pivot. Like, that's.
[00:22:29] Speaker A: It's never solid.
[00:22:30] Speaker B: Yeah, it's never solid. It's just different. Live and webinar different.
So you had, like, the old school group, and then you had, like, these new age Facebook reviews and they might pop up for a month or two and then, like, they die off versus I was like, this is my, like, big opportunity, and I love what I'm doing so much. Like, I'm going to show up here every single day and people are knowing, going to know that I'm going to show up every single day and having that consistency over and over and over and having an audience of people who knew what to expect from me all the time. And then I wasn't just going to drop off the face of the earth and, like, I was here to be their friend to help them through the process.
I think consistency is huge as you start a business.
[00:23:15] Speaker A: Yeah. And even just, there's so much too, as you were saying, that the landscape changes and then therefore the strategy behind it changes when you're going in person to remote. And so I'm actually really curious about that. You said you had experience doing it in person, and so when you were starting your business remote, what are the learning curves that you had to go through when you were transitioning that, you know, different platforms, different audiences?
[00:23:41] Speaker B: Fortunately for me, right before, you know, I took my own exam and did all of that, all my teaching pivoted online. And it was so, you know, we didn't get any training or education about how to pivot to online teaching. You just kind of, like, thrust the punch, oh, okay, I'm just going to do this now.
But me being me as a human, I was like, this has to be a meaningful experience for my students because they're one day going to be a nurse out in the real world. It's not going to be this virtual patient. And I actually lived the full circle of that because when I gave birth to my daughter, one of my past students who had had in a Zoom clinical was my Ob nurse. And I was like, oh, hello, but that being said, I had a lot of flexibility to be really creative, and so they gave us this virtual patient to do with our students, but they didn't dictate how we did it. And so some people would just, like, sign on Zoom and be like, here's your patient. I'll see you in 6 hours. But I was like, you know, here's the diagnosis of the patient we're going to be seeing today, so let's have a conversation about that first before you go into this virtual experience online. And so not only would we kind of have a breakdown before, but I would create, like, many quizzes for them and handouts and different ways to keep them engaged. And so some of my students, I'm sure, hated that. They really just wanted to, like, log in once and log back in 6 hours later. But I also had a lot of students who really, really appreciated that level of effort in their education when everything was so crazy and so uncertain.
But that really set me up for success when I went to create the courses for my business. And the way that I structured the course was instead of being a lecture style, it was very much almost like a conversation, even though it was recorded. So be like, you know, what does stage one hypertension look like? What is the blood pressure cut off for that? And then I would pause so you could answer at home.
[00:25:43] Speaker A: Oh, wow.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Yeah. So the goal was you build up your confidence along the way because you were answering at home. Yeah, it was totally different feel, but because I had already practiced that with my virtual students, I was teaching, it translated really well.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: That's nice. I've never, you know, and I don't mean this negatively, but it reminds me of, like, Dora the explorer when she's.
[00:26:04] Speaker B: Actually what it's like.
[00:26:07] Speaker A: But that's so cute, because there's a reason why Dora is so successful. She let the viewer, like, really engage. That is. I've never heard of it done in this sense. That makes a lot of sense. Oh, wow. So in doing that, I'm really curious, too. As part of being a nurse, naturally, you're going to be working with care teams. It's not going to be just you and you're, like, going through these patients, but also just navigating what it means to have conversations with other healthcare professionals and bring in your expertise and bounce off of theirs. Is there an element to that that you bring into the reviews, or how does that naturally prop up? Is that an anxiety that your students have brought to you?
[00:26:45] Speaker B: It is definitely an anxiety that they have, but it's kind of multi layered when you're a nurse practitioner because it's so varied where you might end up working. And so, actually, the job that I had lined up after school, it was in this really rural practice, literally, like, out in, like, the midst of farmland. But I was going to be the only nurse practitioner who worked in that office. And, like, some days I would have been solo, and some days I would have been with a va.
And so that's really intimidating, right? Like, to think about being alone. But then when you're working as a nurse practitioner, like, you're always in communication with doing referrals and specialists and being able to, like, have those conversations and present yourself in the right way. And so a lot of times what we talk about as you move past, like, passing your examined, is how do you have the confidence in yourself to now have those conversations? You have the knowledge. You do have the confidence in the fact that you passed the exam. Right? So now how do you make that translate forward? And a lot of that comes with experience and time, of course, and just practice along the way. But I will say there is a nice part of being a nurse practitioner, because you've been a nurse first. And so being a nurse, not only have you figured out how to build rapport with patients, so that part's easier, but you've worked as part of an interdisciplinary team. And so even though, like, as a nurse, you're kind of following the orders, you're not setting the orders like you are as a nurse practitioner. You at least have that initial experience of working within a team dynamic and figuring out how that you best communicate. But it is a little bit different, and that's kind of like the finesse and what takes practice.
And I know we haven't talked yet about my daughter, but it was interesting for me as a nurse practitioner when my daughter was born and we were in the hospital to figure out how was I going to communicate as a mom and a nurse practitioner to my daughter's healthcare team. And that was a very interesting dynamic to try to figure out for myself and our family.
[00:28:49] Speaker A: But, oh, I'm. I'm so curious, if you don't mind. Like, could you talk more about that? Because I can only imagine being a new mom. And then also, it's not just the fact that there are strangers handling your baby, but you know how your baby should be handled, because you're a mom and you've done that. So just navigating that, how was that like for you?
[00:29:10] Speaker B: It was incredibly complex, and it's something I'm really passionate about moving forward is helping other parents figure out how to advocate for themselves and their children in the hospital, because, especially if you have no medical background. My husband was a semi truck driver, so he had no medical basis at all. And he helped me build my business, and that was really fun. But when we lived in the hospital for a while, like, that was a brand new experience for him and, like, trying to figure out, like, where do you intervene? Where do you step in? So to just give a little bit of, like, color and background. When I was 36 weeks pregnant, I had had two normal anatomy scans, but I ended up. I switched obese in my third trimester. I had another anatomy scan just as, like, an insurance liability thing.
And we found out my daughter was gonna have four different heart defects. And so, yeah, our. Our lives upended very quickly. And it was a really interesting juxtaposition in my life, because in June of 2022, I sold my former business, and I still work within it today as their chief nursing officer. But I sold into a bigger chest prep company. And in July, we found out Meadow was going to be sick. And then in August, the first week of August, I gave birth. And so I rode, like, the highest high of my life, selling my business. And then I rode the lowest low of my life, unexpectedly having a sick baby.
And so the first week of her life was when she had her first open heart surgery. She was just six days old.
And we were incredibly fortunate in that experience because we were kind of prepared for the worst. And so when things went better than the worst, we were like, oh, deep breath, like, we're all right. We're hanging in there.
And really, where I had to figure out myself as part of the healthcare team was in our interstage time is what they call it. And so when you have a baby with tetralogy of fallot, they put in a patch at birth, if you want to think of it that way. And the goal is they grow bigger and stronger, and then they have, like, the true surgery to fix the defects.
And it was Thanksgiving, and I was up with Meadow early, early in the morning, like, 05:00 a.m. because that's the time that four month old babies are awake.
Back then, during her interstage time, before her big surgery, her oxygen would run, like, 80% and normal. Like, that was just her baseline.
But we were always watching if it dropped, like, we need to go to the hospital, sort of thing. And so she was peacefully sleeping beside me, and I was just watching her. And the monitor dropped down to 50%. And I was, like, panic. Right? Like, the air out of you sort of thing. And I kind of, like, fiddled with her and, like, woke her back up. And it went back up to 80.
But I had, like. I just had this gut feeling. I was like, it's. I was like, it could have been a fluke. I was like, those monitors that you have at home are kind of flukye.
But, like, that's. How do you. How do you, like, translate to a team? Like, I know her oxygen went back up to 80 and that's what you want. But I have this gut feeling as a mom that this is not right.
[00:32:36] Speaker A: Right.
[00:32:37] Speaker B: And so we went in the following Monday, and her patch went bad. And it was, like, emergently time to have her second surgery.
So it was really. It was so nice for me to have the basis as a nurse practitioner. To be able to be like, I know this is probably okay, but my gut says otherwise, so let's do more work. Let's, like, let's do a double check here, sort of thing.
But really, like, as we got into the depths of her second surgery, which went way worse than anybody intended. That's where I kind of got my real experience of how do I discuss with her healthcare team, like, the nuances of Meadow. And I know she's only four months old, but, like. Like, you guys are in here 30 minutes a day. I'm in here 24 hours a day. And so, like, there are things that I see and know about meadow that you don't know, and that's okay. But, like, how can we come together to do her care together?
And how can I, like, best educate my husband so we can make really nice, guided decisions together? Instead of me just, like, overpowering the situation and going full nurse practitioner mode. And, like, living that life.
It was a very interesting experience.
[00:33:51] Speaker A: Thank you so much for sharing. That is so layered. That is so complicated. Because it's, on the one hand, that is your baby. You are the expert of your baby. Like, that is your. Apparently this fly in my room also agrees with me, which is why they're around. I don't. I'm sorry, but I can just hear that complication because. And that's something that a lot of patients, when they're coming into the healthcare system with the problem, have. Like, I know you don't know me that well. I know you're the experts, but I'm an expert here, too. And so balancing that, especially if you have no healthcare clinical experience at all, I mean, that journey is so nuanced. But for you, it's like the double edged sword of you do know. And so it's like you know their end as well as yours. And you have to educate your husband, who has absolutely no idea. I commend you for going through that. That is very difficult. But a question I have is what advice do you have now for parents, for patients moving forward who find themselves in a similar position? How do they best navigate something like that?
[00:34:58] Speaker B: I think that the very best thing that you can do as a parent.
I've recently met a couple of parents, I don't know how this happened to me, who, like, they know the name of their baby's diagnosis, but they can't really, like, explain it to you.
And I just, like, can't.
There's nothing better that you can do as a heart parent because that's what we like to call ourselves. Meadow is a heart warrior. I am a heart parent. But there's nothing better that you can do as a heart parent than understand all the different complexities of your baby's heart. And so Meadow had four different defects. That's a lot to wrap your brain around. And so you have to be able to understand the normal anatomy first to then go on and understand, like, what's going wrong. And by having that understanding and going into her surgeries with that knowledge, like, both me and my husband, then it gave us the ability to know when things felt not right. But if we didn't have the understanding whether we were medical providers or not, then we can't really have that intelligent conversation and really be a part of the team. So the first step is just understanding your baby's heart.
And it was. It was a little bit shocking to me. Like, people who didn't understand their own baby's defects. And there's absolutely no judgment in that. And there's a lot of grief. And that is also a way of coping in some ways when you, like, disconnect. But if. If you're going to live in the hospital on end, like we did for several months, having that basic understanding is. I mean, is paramount. It's absolutely critical.
[00:36:35] Speaker A: I can totally. Yeah, because how else do you, like, that? Is your. It not only gives you. Because you already have the expertise of that being your baby, but it gives you some credibility of, like, I've actually done my research in my homework too. Like, I can actually.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: I know what I'm saying here.
[00:36:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Like, there's an element of, oh, I think I get this. Help me help you see where I'm coming from. Oh, man. I have to ask, how's Meadow doing now?
[00:37:00] Speaker B: I love when people ask about Meadow, actually, so thank you. Meadow is the healthiest she has ever been. She is so much fun. She just turned two in August.
[00:37:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[00:37:10] Speaker B: And she was a little bit behind physically for a bit. And I find oftentimes that kids flip flop, so if they're behind physically, they're head verbally and vice versa.
And so we're already having, like, full conversations, even though she's a fresh, too.
And it is so much fun to get insight into her little brain and watch her grow. And I watch her get stronger, too, because a lot of, you know, when you're having a major chest surgery like that, you're losing core strength. So even we take, like, so much joy in, like, her just climbing up on a play set because, like, that's a big deal for your core strength. You know, that's a big deal for her. And so I feel like we appreciate everything at a different level, too, which is really, really nice.
[00:37:55] Speaker A: Oh, man, that's awesome. Oh, congrats to Meadow. Is shedden, has she been a terrible, too? Has she painted your walls yet?
[00:38:04] Speaker B: You know, now that you say that, she actually, she painted on the floor last week and it startled me.
I was like, it's fine, it's washable paint. I like to tell people she's a terrific, too. She's. She's just fun right now. Yeah. I was like, I don't know what three nature will be like, but right now we're in the terrific twos. And I am so gated up.
[00:38:21] Speaker A: Oh, that's nice. I have a very distinct memory of when my younger brother was born and he was two. 1 minute the wall was fine, the next, there were rainbows, there were animals. And it's like, how did you, how did you do that?
[00:38:36] Speaker B: Yeah, that's always my fear with scissors. I'm like, please stay far away from scissors. Cutting hair. That's my memory of my sister. Was her cutting.
[00:38:42] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, no.
[00:38:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:46] Speaker A: And they don't even know. They're just like, I'm seeing fun.
[00:38:49] Speaker B: No, no, I'm just having so much fun. But it doesn't grow back that fast.
[00:38:52] Speaker A: Like, mom. It's still zigzag.
That's so fun. Oh, man. This has been an absolute pleasure talking with you. I always love to end these type of interviews with this question, but if you were to go back to the beginning of your journey, and I have no idea where you would even determine that, maybe it's ten years old on the playground. Maybe it's your first day of clinicals. Maybe it's the start of your business. But if you were to go back to the beginning, what would you have told yourself?
[00:39:21] Speaker B: That's a load of question.
You know, I think if I could go back, I think I would go back to my nursing school self, because that was the self that struggled the most. That was the self that had just no self confidence or really any vision of what was coming.
I was just like, I'm gonna become a nurse, and this is my life. And, like, if I not that was gonna live a mundane life, but I could never have envisioned this life today.
I think that I would tell her to just give herself a lot of grace and compassion. I wouldn't want to really, like, paint the picture of what's coming, because it's so much more fun when you don't know what's coming. Like, so much more beautiful that way.
But I really, like, I wish she hadn't been so hard on herself, and. And I would absolutely encourage her to keep leaning into her education, because I felt like education, getting the degrees I got, it was such a ticket, and it set me up for such success, and it's really. It was a super important part of my journey, so I think that's what I would do.
[00:40:31] Speaker A: I personally relate to a lot of that. I think maybe it's just part of the culture, but my pharmacy school years were tough, and I also struggled a lot with my own confidence. But you have no idea what's on the other end. You know, you have no idea where life goes past that, so. Ah, Mandy. And keeping that in frame and focus, really important. But thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it talking to you.
[00:40:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I appreciate your time so, so much.
[00:40:57] Speaker A: Thanks.
