Laura Darrell | Oct 9, 2024

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, Laura. Thank you so much for spending your time with us today. I honestly just want to jump right in because as I was doing my gentle stocking with you, I found one thing that I thought really interesting. You're in. You were doing your work on your thesis. You described it as, and I wrote it down, multidisciplinary, collaborative leadership practices within franchise organizations that enhance business results and all key stakeholders. I just need to know, what was the story behind that? Why did you choose to do something so specific and how? What did you learn? [00:00:32] Speaker B: Great question. So I spent my whole kind of working life in franchised organizations. So I worked for franchisees for part of my career, and then I worked for the franchisor for the other part of my career. And I used to say, like, I talk, I speak both languages of franchisee and franchisor. And sometimes in that industry there can be some relationship struggles, mostly with kind of franchisors treating franchisees like their employees as opposed to entrepreneurs and business owners. And I just constantly saw this, like, butting heads and lack of collaboration really impacting in not a great way the relationship. So I decided, you know what? I'm going to go and do my master's degree in leadership because that's my jam. And when it came time to picking what I wanted to do my thesis research on, I thought, well, this could be really helpful. Like, I want to understand how do you bring two groups of people that are fundamentally really different? The type of people that would open up a small business are very different than the type of people that, you know, climb the corporate ladder and work in big organizations. And how do you as a leader, like, bring those two groups together? Because I've seen it. I've seen it work really well, and those organizations have amazing results. Franchisees and the franchisor. So that was kind of my, I don't know, I just think it was so specific because that's where I spent my whole career, was kind of working in that world, and I wanted to leave it a little better than the way I found it. [00:02:11] Speaker A: So then, like, backing up entirely, what brought you to the world to begin with? [00:02:15] Speaker B: What brought me to the leadership world or the franchise world or actually, yeah. [00:02:20] Speaker A: That'S a very good question. Both. But I guess starting off with franchisee, because I have a lot of questions about the leadership, but specifically that, well. [00:02:29] Speaker B: I think my story is like probably that of millions and millions of people. I started as a fry cook working in fast food. The company was in Canada. It's called a and w. It's a really beloved kind of fast food chain. And I literally started my first job shoveling fries in the kitchen and then I got promoted to working the grill and making the burgers and then, you know, working up front in a cashier position. But that was a franchise that I started in, so I like to say, and I spent over ten years working with a and w, so I kind of worked my way up the ladder, became like a multi unit leader, but working for franchisees the whole time. So I like to say, like, I learned how to run a business through the eyes of a franchisee and I spent over ten years with and around franchisees. So that's kind of how I started in the franchise world. And then I made the switch over to working for the franchisor and that's where I really started to notice, like, oh, hey, you guys don't really understand each other very well. And so that's what kind of put me on this trajectory in the franchise world. And that certainly, you know, that first job shoveling fries is where I got my first opportunity to be a leader. And that was amazing and special and turned out to be my jam. [00:03:53] Speaker A: That's so awesome, too, the fact that you started literally shoveling fries and now you're like being the bridge behind all these different leaders with these different visions. I mean, talk about a come up story. That's so cool that you were able to do that. Just, oh, that's awesome. [00:04:08] Speaker B: Well, it just goes to show, too that I think a lot of times people, they kind of look down on some of those jobs and think, oh, well, that's fast food and you're never going to go anywhere. And that's kind of a dead end job. And I'm always quick to tell people, like, hey, man, that's not the case. Like, if you are a good human and you work hard, good things will happen to you and you'll continue to kind of climb up that ladder and get more experience and do more things, and it can turn into a really amazing career. Like, I spent ten years there. I didn't go to university. I mean, much later in life I did, but I was the epitome of graduate from high school, kind of get the first job I can, didn't go to university, but I gathered all of these business skills and life skills for working, you know, kind of in this, in this industry. And, you know, it turned out for me, my gosh, before I retired, I got to be vice president at a billion dollar company and like a fry cook, shovel and fries like, I think more people need to talk about what can happen in the restaurant industry or hotel industry or retail industry, because you can work your way up the ladder in all of those industries and get really valuable experience. [00:05:24] Speaker A: And that's just, yeah, that's just so inspiring. So when you were climbing up this ladder, what are some key tenets that you feel contributed to your success? [00:05:33] Speaker B: Well, I think a lot has to do with kind of my values, and we all have them. How you were raised and kind of my folks raised me in a way where work ethic, I grew up on a farm, so no shortage of work to go around. So that was one of my, is one of my core values. So, like, I just worked hard. Like, I took every shift and I was always on time and I always did, you know, the job that was asked of me, and I took pride in doing, doing good work. And when they asked me if I wanted to, like, hey, do you want to? You're doing really great on the fries. It's been a number of months. Do you want to learn how to make onion rings? Do you want to learn how to work the grill? And so I'm all a yes girl. I'm like, yeah, sure, I do. That sounds great. I'm going to learn more things. I'm going to get to pick up more shifts. And honestly, I have to say, probably because I was super reliable and I worked really hard, that they just kept giving me more and more. And then you're a shift supervisor, and then you're like, an assistant manager, and then you're like, you get your ticket to the big show. So, yeah, I just think work hard, be a good human, be somebody that people can count on. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:44] Speaker B: And good things are going to happen to you. Like, I really believe it. I've seen it a million times in my career that those three things mixed together, super, super powerful. [00:06:53] Speaker A: That is really cool. Yeah. And it just gives so much hope to someone, you know, like, that you really can go up and those big lustrous dreams you have are totally possible. You just have to show up, work hard, and be a good person. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. And, like, I think just people write off the, these industries as like, wow, they're just kind of dead end jobs. They don't understand, like, hey, all of these, like, the McDonald's, the w's, all these hotels, they all have head offices that employ marketing people, accounting people, hr people, legal people. So, you know, gosh, if you start, you know, at the bottom and you work your way up and then you, you know, you pick a great company that has like, tuition reimbursement that'll pay for your school, then you get some education, then you get to go work in head office and like. But I just think those industries, maybe they just don't do a good enough job kind of promoting that, that there are real careers to be had in those industries. [00:07:50] Speaker A: Yeah, you talking about that reminds me of, oh, I think he's going to be CEO of Nike. But how he started off is like very much like entry level sales got not even sales, like at the register. Just kept going. Kept going. That's, that's really awesome that I'm gonna keep that with me today. That's really cool. So just then transitioning though, to leadership, what about leadership? And the fundamentals of it really inspired you to take on that as a degree. And I know, I also saw that you're working towards your doctorate. So what was the journey behind going through that? [00:08:28] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. So leadership is my, like, saying it's my jam. Doesn't even do it justice. I just, it is my, I'm just on this, like, mission to remove toxic managers and bosses from the workplace because I think that once you work for somebody like that and you experience the stress, the anxiety, the dread, like I used to call, I used to ask my leaders, like, you tell me how your folks are feeling at 04:00 in the afternoon on a Sunday before they got to come to work. Because that's your gut check. Because I had a boss like that where Sunday afternoon would roll around and you just feel that dread of going to work. And it doesn't stop with you. It impacts your family, it impacts your friends, it impacts your health. There's this amazing girl, I'm going to forget her name now at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden. And she actually did this, her, her thesis on following two cohorts of people, you know, kind of men in the same age bracket, some that identified working in a really positive culture for a great leader, does all the things, feels, you know, appreciated, all that good stuff. And then the same type of cohort working in toxic environments for toxic, toxic managers. And she found through her research that their health outcomes were infinitely worse in those that worked for toxic organizations with bad managers. And so I just remember reading that and thinking, oh, my gosh, like everybody's, you know, all the government and all these senior executives trying to change the world and we have to do this and we have to do that. And I'm like, dude, can we just start with, like, getting rid of toxic managers, because I think that's the best thing that you could do to help people's, their mental health, their relationships, their physical health. So I'm just gonna stop. You just tell me to stop ranting, because I'm on this mission to preach the gospel of, like, good leadership and the impact that that can have on people's life. And that has, honestly, that has just driven me probably for the last ten or 15 years. It has just driven me, number one, to be that leader myself, to create that environment and that culture for my teams, and then to really encourage other leaders to be that type of person. Because, I mean, the impact that has on people's lives and then their family, the friends, their community, it just spiders out from there. If you're going to change the world, I feel like that's a great place to start. [00:11:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Just with the people right next to you change their world and then, you know, and then there's that natural ripple effect and chain reaction. So then I. I just, it begs the question, what have you found to be good leadership? Because at least I've seen some people who are, how do I say this? Who lead with fear or with thinking that that's like, the hard knocks way is the way to go. So in your experience, what does good leadership look like? [00:11:39] Speaker B: That's such a great question. I think that to answer that, you have to kind of look at different generations, right? Because there was a time when that style of leadership, that very authoritarian, kind of dictatorial leadership, was the most prevalent leadership in the workplace. And that was kind of right after World War Two. And if you think about that, the kind of the folks coming out of the army, which is very much command and control, they took that style of leadership with them into the workplace. And that was kind of the most prevalent work style or leadership style at that time. But then as generations change, that became more and more unacceptable to a lot of different folks. I really noticed the big shift kind of with the millennials. Gen Xers are kind of their own different breed. But yeah, I think with the millennials and certainly with Gen Z, they're looking for something really different. And a lot of it has to do with how they were raised. So millennials and Gen Zs were kind of raised in this environment where two things happened consistently. Number one, there was the removal of winners and losers. So you look at kind of like sports days and things happening in school. They really moved away from the, like, 1st, 2nd, 3rd winners, too, kind of. Everybody got the participation ribbon, everybody got lots of applause and recognition and appreciation for the smallest of things that they did. Even from a parenting style, you started to see this positive reinforcement and reward and recognize doing the dishes, doing their chores. And so they were raised in this environment to expect a lot of appreciation and recognition. So that's kind of one thing about them that was really different. The other is that these were the first generation of kids that had these, like, super moms that were like, I'm gonna take you to ballet and t ball and piano, and you're gonna play soccer, you're gonna play hockey, and you're gonna play football, and you're gonna do all the things, all the activities. And what that lended itself to is that these kids are hyper coached. They're coached in every single thing they do. They're used to having this kind of coach by their side, giving them feedback, cheering them on, encouraging them, helping them correct kind of issues with performance to help them get better. So if you think about those kids showing up into the workplace, the leadership style that I think is most impactful for them and has amazing impacts on organizational culture is what they call the appreciative leadership style and the coaching leadership style. And the best leaders that I have worked with and that I have kind of seen in action, they just get it. They're full of appreciation and recognition for all the big things and all the little things, because they understand that it's actually in all of us, it's a human need to feel seen and valued and recognized for your contributions. That appreciative leadership style works really well. And then, of course, if you think about how much feedback and coaching these kids have had, and if they show up into a workplace where they don't get any feedback and no coaching and no career pathing and there's no performance review and there's no peer feedback, they're lost. They're literally, they're lost. They feel ill equipped to get the job done. So that coaching leadership style where you work in the trenches, kind of shoulder to shoulder with your team, giving them real time feedback, real time kind of recognition of what they're doing well, training plans, development plans, mentorship, and I could go on and on, but I think for me, gosh, if you want to be a great leader, those are two things that you could really lean into. Gosh, just appreciate people, recognize them, make sure they feel seen and valued, and then coach them, show them what's possible, help them learn new skills and advance their. To advance their careers, I think leaders can make such a huge impact on people's lives when they, when they do those two things. [00:16:06] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's, it's funny. So I personally, being honest, I definitely identify with both generations being more on the cusp myself. But, yeah, I definitely, I definitely relate to those generations. And so when you're talking, playing devil's advocate, I hear the other side of the criticism behind, well, isn't that just babying them? Isn't that just that infantilization almost, right? It's like you walk that thin line, but then when you talk about the end results of mentorship, of career growth trajectory, of seeing the possibilities, isn't that what we all want? So how, when you have that, what's the word? That resistance, that's like, oh, well, I don't want to baby my colleague. They're adults. They're in the workplace, you know, but you also see the benefits. How do you walk that? [00:16:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that because I've heard that question or that position a number of times, and I always like to say, I don't know. Look, man, it's a choice. We have a choice. As leaders, you can choose to say, toughen up, buttercup. This is the real world, and you need to just get used to showing up, do the job, and that's the way it is. You can do that. Of course you can. That's your choice as a leader. But I'll tell you, the results that you're going to get from that individual are going to be a fraction of what they could be if you just, and even if you just take the appreciative leadership style name out of it and just say, like, dude, just be a good human. Just like, take care of people. Why wouldn't you want to celebrate their success? Why wouldn't you want to shine a light on all the great things they're doing? Because that leads to confidence, and confidence leads to competence. And don't we want a bunch of competent people working on the team or working in the business like I would think we would. To get to be competent, you got to invest in their coaching, and you got to build their confidence. And the best way to build confidence is to shine a light on the things that they're doing really well and actually care enough to coach them and give them the feedback for things that they're not. So I always just say, like, it's, it's totally a choice. It's up to you. You can bang your head against the wall and wonder why, you know, Johnny's not working out because, you know, he just seems to be disengaged and he doesn't seem to be super motivated. And you can expect that he's going to change for you. Or you can recognize the ultimate power of leadership is within you. You have the complete power to change yourself as a leader and use whatever leadership style is necessary to get the best out of that person. Because I think. I don't know, I just think that if you wanna lead people, man, I think it's one of the most serious jobs you could have, because you literally have people's careers in your hand, and not only their careers. Like, you're responsible oftentimes for how these folks feel when they go home at the end of the day. Do they feel like they're a part of something? Like they contributed to something, that somebody cares about them and appreciates them? Or do they go home at the end of the day wondering, like, what is it I'm even doing here? Does anybody even see the work that I like? That's just a terrible way for people to feel. [00:19:23] Speaker A: I think, yeah, there's so much humanness to that, too. Like, there really is a serious responsibility to just take care of your fellow man in that sense, you know? And it almost. So another question that I have is it. It begs the question, because you've put this in the lens of specifically millennials and Gen Z in terms of this leadership style, but doesn't this just work for humans? I'm curious, how has this translated across different generations? [00:19:51] Speaker B: Yeah, that's such a great question, because you're absolutely right. The appreciative leadership style taps into that human need in all of us to feel seen and valued and appreciated for our work. So that absolutely works across generations. And I think same with the coaching leadership style, more so with the millennials and Gen Z because of how they've grown up. But when you connect that to the baby boomers, which is another fascinating kind of subject right now, because so many of them are kind of in the late stages of their career and they're getting ready to retire. And what's really important to the boomers is this idea of mentorship. It's my legacy. What am I going to leave behind when I leave this place? So they're a natural fit in the end stage of their careers to play a very active role mentoring the new folks in the organization. The one anomaly, and I'm a Gen X, so I feel like I can speak with a little bit of honesty on Gen X. We're a whole different breed. We're the kids that were raised with literally a key around our neck. Walk yourself home after school and let yourself in and make your own snack. You know, it's Saturday morning. Get outside and play. I don't want to see you till dinner time. So we had this very different kind of upbringing that really lends itself to a lot of independence, a lot of critical thinking, a lot of, like, blaze my own trail. I want to kind of figure things out on my own. And I think that from a leadership perspective, to get the most out of leading anybody, it's just a conversation. Like, hey, tell me, like, what are your goals? What are you trying to accomplish here? You're good, you're happy, kind of doing what you're doing. Amazing. I'm here to support you if you need anything. But just, I think that that one size fits all approach to leadership. Yeah. I just. I think it's not super impactful. We are all humans. We're all different. There's a couple of styles that lend itself to a lot of different cohorts of people. But I think at the end of the day, the best leaders in the world care enough to ask, how do you like to get feedback? How do you like to be recognized? What are you trying to do here? Is this like, just a stop on your journey to something else? Or are you trying to make a career of this place? All things that if you don't ask those questions, you'll never know and then you'll never be able to kind of lead that individual in a really meaningful way? [00:22:21] Speaker A: Mmm. Yes. And so, as you're talking, also, I think I'd love to ask you about your definition of leadership and who can be a leader, because my. I think my initial inclination is, I'm thinking C suite, your CEO's, your vps, your senior directors. Yeah, but your senior. You're top level people, but you really can lead in almost any level, depending on the circumstance. So can you talk a little bit more about that and how you would adapt your style in those settings? [00:22:53] Speaker B: I think that anybody can be a leader. I think it has true leadership has very little to do with position and title. You can lead from the middle, lead from behind. I like to just say, oh, my gosh, just lead from wherever you are. Everybody just take a feet and lead from wherever you are, because you can have such an impact even if you don't have a title. Like, I think peer leadership is one of the most telling forms of people that have that true leadership skill, is that when you're just a peer with somebody, but your peer has earned your respect and earned your trust. And you can give them feedback and help coach them and cheer them along. That is such a tremendous way to lead and impact people without even having a title. I think that we can all just do a great job appreciating and recognizing our family, our friends, our neighbors, our colleagues, our peers. You don't have to shy away from giving feedback to somebody because you're not their direct leader, their direct manager. So, yeah, I really believe that personal leadership is a thing. It's something that you can do for all the people in your life, is to just appreciate people, recognize them, help them, just help people invest in your family, your friends and your community, in your neighborhoods. I think if we all just did that, I don't even know that we would recognize what the world looks like today. Things are so divided right now. I've never, I've never seen anything like it. It is wild to me. I remember a time where, oh, my gosh, like, you could be a conservative and I could be a liberal or a Democrat or a, you know, a conservative or a Republican, and you could debate the politics of it all and then like, haha, let's go grab a beer and sit around the fire. Let's go grab dinner. You know, I just, I don't know what. I mean. I have my, my theories on what's happened, why it is the way it is. But I tell you, that's what keeps me awake at night is, is this incredible division and polarization. Because I just know. I'm also kind of a history buff in my, in my spare time. I just know that when things get really polarized like this, history tells us nothing good happens during those periods of time. So I think that the solution is in each of us. Sometimes I think we get lost in how big the world is and I'm just one person and I can't make a difference. But man, oh, man, just like, start by leading from right where you are and just appreciate people and care about them and make them feel good and invest in them and help them. Because I think that's honestly what I think is going to, what it's going to take to change the world. [00:26:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's such a refreshing take on what it means to be a leader, to be a human, to serve it, really. As you were saying before, there's no fancy title. Just as long as you bridge the divide and you bring people together and you recognize them as they are, so much magic can just happen in that you don't do that enough because of the division it, oh it's so. It's not even just in work, it's in life. And it just kind of follows us forever, which is so sad. [00:26:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:36] Speaker A: So as you're talking about this, one thing that I saw that you're actively involved in is that you work on YW Calgary and it, I said I saw that the description was helping people move from surviving to thriving. So what's your experience been with that? I mean I feel like that's the perfect encapsulation of all we've been talking about. [00:26:54] Speaker B: Oh man, I loved that. The time volunteering with that organization and really what they did, the way it all started was new immigrants coming to the city of Calgary and helping them just understand how things work in Canada. Mostly from an employment perspective. Because you kind of land in this city, number one, it's very different if you're coming from all these different parts of the world and gosh help you if you land in the January and it's -50 outside. I'm certainly you're wondering what on earth have I gotten myself into? But the way people look for jobs, what the corporate culture is like, you just, you don't know those things. If you're coming from the other side of the world, like you don't know those things. And I had just found in my career that really can limit people because they don't know the organizational culture and they don't know kind of what are the norms of in employment and looking for jobs and getting promoted and growing your career. So yeah, I used to go once a month as new immigrants would go through this program in Calgary and I would talk to them about this. At this point. When I started working with this organization, I was working in recruitment, I was working for a really big job board in Canada. So I had all this like insider information about how to write your resume and your cover letter letter in a way that kind of gets past some of the screening systems and would compel a hiring manager to want to talk to you. So yeah, I used to go in once a month and just talk to them about looking for a job in Canada. And what does that mean and how do you do that? And when people say, well you got a network, well what does that mean? What does that mean to somebody that has never done that before? Certainly never done that in Canada. So yeah, I just used to just talk to them all about looking for jobs, growing your career, what it's like to work in corporations in Canada. Yeah, was just an amazing experience. [00:29:01] Speaker A: Awesome. Yeah, I saw that and I just. I thought it was really interesting that you've, in your free time, were able to do that and how it also ties into your story as well. It's very much along that same theme of leadership. And so it just. It makes a lot of sense. Sense. I had another question for you. Trying to find it. Trying to find it. Oh, got it. So in all of these different interactions that you've had, being a leader yourself, working with clients, what is a story or an experience that's impacted you? [00:29:36] Speaker B: Oh, that's such a great question. I think that when I in kind of the work that I do now, which is mostly I just do coaching, I speak at a lot of conferences and events, but the favorite thing I do, I have this one client that I work with. It's a big restaurant chain in Canada, and I do a lot of work in developing their frontline leaders. So, like, I'm talking about the kids that are getting promoted for the first time to, you know, a general manager and assistant manager. And one of the things I love most about that work is that I get to share all, like, the good and the bad of my journey. Right? Like, all of the, you know, the mistakes I made and the things that, you know, I look back now, and I'm just like, it's cringe worthy. I'm like, oh, my gosh, did I really say that? Did I really do that? And I just find that when you are really open, and this has kind of been my leadership philosophy forever, but when you're really open about struggles you've had and mistakes you've made, you just give permission to everybody else to just be honest. You can be your real self. You don't have to sweep anything under the rug. I remember when I got promoted to my first executive role, I used to talk all the time about imposter syndrome. I literally. I used to tell my team, like, oh, man. Like, my palms are sweaty. Like, I just feel like, what am I doing here in this seat? And again, I just find you gotta label it. You gotta give a name to, you know, the things that you're feeling so that people can be like, oh, man. There's actually a thing called impostor syndrome. I thought it was just me. I thought I was just like, anxious anxiety, like, no, no, no, Mandez. It's an actual thing. Google it. You'll read it and be like, oh, that's me to a t. So I just think that I love that about the work I do now is that I can just give names to all of the things that people are feeling. And I guess that's what I acquired through the education, is just, like, there are actually names for a lot of these things. Like, especially, I love talking about change when people are in that weird place where they know the old way. I can't do it like that anymore, but the new way is still a bit of. I'm not sure. I've kind of lost all my confidence because I used to feel really good about what I was doing. That's called no man's land. It's an actual thing. It's an actual place on your journey to change. So, yeah, anyway, I could talk about that all day. I love giving names to the things that people are feeling and sharing my own personal experiences, because that, I just think, makes people realize we're all human, man. We're all on this crazy journey, a lot of us experiencing the same things. But when you don't talk about it, people think that there's something wrong with them because nobody talks about it. It's crazy. [00:32:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So much I can relate to. So much of that is so refreshing because to the point of just naming it. Oh, what's that saying? If fear is driving in the front, shame's in the back? [00:32:55] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:32:56] Speaker A: You know, like, there's something about the power of naming it and being, like, I, in this moment, am anxious or I, like, I don't know. Let me help you. It's so powerful, and yet I feel, like, real, like. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Like, I feel that way. Especially even with, like, relationships and marriage. [00:33:14] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:33:15] Speaker B: I'm like, girl, if you're telling me that you never fight and your relationship, like, I. I don't believe you because I've been married for 17 years. And, like, dude, that is hard. Like, there are times when it's great, but there are times where I. It's not great. And, like, maybe he wants to quit or maybe I want to quit, and we don't. We work our way through it. But it's hard. Relationships are hard. Work is hard. Career is hard. Life is hard. And when you gloss over the hard, some people feel like social media is really bad for this, too. People look at, you know, all of the influencers on social media, and they're like, their life is perfect. They never have it. Like, dude, that is not true. Their life is hard. True. They just have great filters and people taking great angle pictures and show you what they want you to see. But for everyday folks, life is hard for all of us. And the more we talk about that, the more we normalize it. The more it gets normalized, the more people feel like there's not something wrong with them because they're having a. They're having a rough patch. Anyway, I could go on and on. [00:34:17] Speaker A: No, it's just especially about social media. I mean, you're telling me that I'm not supposed to have perfect skin all the time, and I don't wake up with the perfect blowout and makeup on and dress. That's so interesting. Oh, man. It's just the world we live in now. But that. So then, okay. Along the lines of just honesty, is there a failure that you've had that has shaped you and so what have you learned from it? [00:34:47] Speaker B: Well, I've had a number of failures. Let me pick a good. Okay. I actually shared the story with it with a client this morning. I remember kind of early on in my career, it was where. It was my first job with a and w. The fries and the burgers. I've been there for about ten years. I was managing, I think, three or four locations, and this job came up at the head office to be a regional manager, looking after, like, 80 restaurants. And, like, I thought it was a pretty big deal back then. I'm like, I've been flipping teen burgers and making fries for ten years. Like, I know everything about this business. So I applied for the job, went through the interview process, didn't get the job. The feedback they gave me was that I needed more. More seasoning, more experience. This is the only job that I had. And to be able to consult and support franchisees. Like, you got to know some other things about financials or marketing or recruiting, and I had none of those things. But I. Yeah, I just let my. My temper and my lack of patience and, you know, I just think that I wasn't. Certainly wasn't humble enough, and I let all of that get the best of me, and I just left that kind of. That meeting, and I went out, I found another job, and I quit. And I look back at that, at that now, and I talk about that story all the time, because some of the biggest learnings that I went through came from quitting, came from throwing my towel in, because I didn't get my way, and I felt like I deserved that, and I was entitled to that job. And I learned two or three years later after I went and worked at another company with a little bit more responsibility. And then I went to school for the first time and started studying leadership and learning these other things, and I just realized that they were 100% ranked. Like, I didn't have the skills or the experience to do that job. I mean, it all worked out in the end because I learned from that, that failure that just kind of quitting and throwing in the towel and the way I care. I look back now and it's so cringe worthy. I'm like, oh, my gosh, Laura, what is happening here? But it set me on this journey. I think that experience is what set me on this journey. That's when I started taking this kind of night school classes in leadership, where I met this instructor that had just done her master's in leadership. And I was like, what? There's a master's degree in leadership. And, you know, ten or 15 years later, I was in that same program. And so I think it's a good example that, look, we're all going to make mistakes. We're all going to do things that we look back on that's a little bit cringe worthy of. But if you use those moments in your life to learn something from it, then it's not a total loss. [00:37:55] Speaker A: And isn't that the beauty of failures and doors being closed? I mean, imagine if you did get that job. You wouldn't know that leadership was a passion to begin with. Oh, it's so cool looking back and seeing all those opportunities that were closed for a reason, for something bigger. Oh, that's so then, in spirit of that, and I also am looking at the time, I always love to end these conversations with this question just because I love hearing what your thoughts are and just the reflection aspect of it. But if you were to go back to your journey, I don't know where that you would define that as maybe ten years old in the playground, maybe your first day flipping fries and burgers, what would you have told yourself? [00:38:37] Speaker B: Oh, that's a great question. I think that I would go back in time when I was, like, ten, 1112 years old. You know, that's such a. Such a weird time for young girls that I think I would go back to that moment and I would say, like, girl, a lot of people are going to think a lot of things about you, and they're going to have a lot of opinions about you. And don't get lost in that. Don't overweight the opinions of other people. Be more concerned about your character, because your opinion is just what other people think of you. But your character is who you actually are. And I think that I would help my younger self understand that, really, it's about your character. Opinions are cheap. Everyone's going to have one. And if you get so wrapped up in what other people think about you, that's when you. What I think about, you know, the bad decisions I made, as in my youth, like, those were all to, like, fit in with people, and I wanted certain people to think certain things about me. And, like, man, life's too short for that. That never works out well, right? [00:39:52] Speaker A: Oh, that's so lovely. Thank you for that. I little, my own little girl, my own little ten year old was like, that was good advice, but I really appreciated this time. Thank you so much for sharing. That's so lovely. [00:40:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it was an amazing conversation. Honestly. I can't believe it went by. I honestly can't believe it. I'm looking at the time, I'm like, oh, my God, that's the fastest 30, 40 minutes of my life, maybe. [00:40:20] Speaker A: I mean, it's easy when you're that personable, when you're that good and you have your mission and you know, what you want to talk about, it's just the passion comes from you so naturally. [00:40:30] Speaker B: So it's just amazing. [00:40:32] Speaker A: It's easy to talk to. Easy. [00:40:35] Speaker B: Thank you.