Karley Cunningham | Aug 2, 2024

Duchess (00:00) launch into it. But I just want to first off start off by saying thank you so much for taking the time out to speak with us. I mean, I did some gentle stalking of your LinkedIn and just I saw all the different things that you're a part of. Like, I mean, your keynote speaker, you have your own organization, all of these things. And so I just wanted to first start off by saying thank you. We appreciate Karley (00:22) My pleasure. It's always wonderful to be found. So remind me later to ask you, how did you all find me? Duchess (00:27) I know. How did this work? But so starting off, just one of the things that really struck me looking through all the different things that you've been a part of is the fact that you also put that you were at a time a yoga instructor as well as a creative director. Like both of those things were kind of flowing under LinkedIn. So and you've also mentioned about you being an athlete preneur. So I really want to talk to you about how sports, athletics, like that lifestyle, how that's all been integrated into your work. Karley (00:59) Yeah, wow, that's a big question. Just to clarify, so I'm not misrepresenting myself, I'm all things brand. So I actually taught spinning at a yoga studio, which was really cool because we were at, so that comes from my athletic background. I was a pro elite cyclist, a cross country mountain biker, and I was teaching spin classes. Duchess (01:01) Sorry. Mmm. Karley (01:24) you know, in the very early days to supplement my race career. And then after I left that, then I kept doing it to pay for vacation. So I had a side hustle so I could travel because I love to travel. So how all of those came together? mean, essentially it comes down to what I was passionate about as someone who has ADHD, full disclosure, self -diagnosed. when you tick all the boxes on several different surveys, Duchess (01:47) Yeah. Yep. Yep. Karley (01:52) I can't do things that don't hold my interest or that I'm not passionate about. And I can remember cycling being a thing ever since I had, you know, the banana seat bike with the sparkly seat and it was purple and it was just gorgeous. And so I've always loved the freedom of being on my bike. And so I think freedom is also a topic that ties through in my life as Duchess (02:06) Absolutely. my Karley (02:18) the travel and being an entrepreneur and not being tied down to one thing and the freedom to cross disciplines. So really, I think what you're seeing in my profile is me weaving together the things that I love. And then also a lot of it is bringing together the people that I love. Duchess (02:34) That is so cool. I really love the idea of freedom. Can you talk a little bit more about how you've been able to really delve into that? here are so many times, especially the entrepreneurial space, that you kind of have to laser focus on one thing, like be a master, so to say. So how have you been able to bring about freedom instead? Karley (02:46) Mmm. Yeah, I think it's much like the definition of success. You have to define what freedom looks like for yourself. I I certainly don't work a four hour work week. And I think part of that is because I can't imagine not being in the room with my clients and the people that I get to collaborate with. So I think everybody chooses their own path of what freedom looks like. Freedom for me means, it's funny, I took a job. Duchess (03:01) Huh. Karley (03:24) guess I would have been about 15 years ago after being an entrepreneur for many, many years, having my own business. And it just felt like the right opportunity. And I was like, hey, I can give this a go. And where it really hit me on the freedom piece was when I had to go and ask if I could take vacation and get permission for the dates. And I was like, whoa, no, no, no, no, no, this is no, hold up. My brain didn't comprehend Duchess (03:47) Yeah. Yeah. Karley (03:51) So freedom for me is the freedom to choose the clients that I get to work with. It's freedom to choose the collaborators and other strategic partners that I get to work with. It's the freedom to create new events. I created a networking event here that's called Casual Fridays on the North Shore of North Vancouver. I live in this beautiful place where everybody is athletic and they all tend to check out on a Friday afternoon. And I'm like, hey, I've got this thing on a Friday and everybody was like, nobody will come. And I was like, really? Let's just give it a try. They're like, it's Friday afternoon. Nobody will come. I said, yeah, but we are in a way a commuter community and people are driving across the bridges. And for those of us that work here, Vancouver, North Vancouver, West Vancouver is across from Vancouver. The only way can get there is two bridges. The traffic is terrible. So if you don't leave for an event at four at two, forget Or you're lucky if you make it, but someday I've literally driven a loop of the bridges, trying to get to an event. And I was just stuck in traffic for an hour and a half. So I created it for North Vancouver business owners and leaders who didn't want to drive across a bridge. So selfishly again, there's that theme of freedom. I'm going to control the control, the thing control the day control the environment. So, and I called it casual Fridays because I was like, Hey, if you want to go for a mountain bike ride or a trail run before the event and show know, muddy and what else? Like that's us. That's, that's, that's the vibe here in North Vancouver. and it has turned into, think we've been, we hosted it for about a year or so before COVID had to shut it down, started it back up. we're hosting one next week and within a week we've got 65 % of the tickets sold out. Right. and yeah, and 50 tickets go pretty quickly. And so we've developed this amazing network of folks who surprisingly, a lot of them come, there's one guy who drives in from the Valley, which could be an hour to an hour and a half away. So, you know, the freedom to create community is really great. Also had the opportunity recently to create a collective called the Rainbow on blah, blah, blah, blah. It's a mouthful. The Rainbow Entrepreneur Collective. And there was a group of us who hosted a panel for Pride last year for business owners. And we recognize that post COVID, there were no organizations left that were bringing Duchess (05:48) It's crazy. Good. Karley (06:15) 2SLGBTQI plus people together. And so we thought there's a great vibe here. Let's write it. Let's carry it. And so it's for co -hosts and we've been doing it for a year and it's getting great reception. yeah. Duchess (06:29) That is so refreshing to hear, especially, it's just, especially with, feel like the times are shifting now, where like the definition of like work culture is just so much more different now, like the ability to be more of yourself and bring that into different spheres and just kind of challenge that status quo. just, and even you talking about these initiatives that you're giving yourself the freedom to start. While you're talking about that, I also hear just a lot of resilience, just a lot of fearlessness to be able to do that. And so, I mean, I suffer from imposter syndrome and like, you know, having ideas and like being afraid to start. So like, how are you able to craft and develop that skill? Karley (07:13) I think part of it comes from my background as an athlete. You know, I've always been an athlete. My parents enrolled me in figure skating when I was, I don't know if I was four or five, and I quickly kind of moved up and showed potential, and I think it was around the age of six, they held tryouts, and I was selected of one of three. Duchess (07:16) Good. That's cool. Karley (07:36) girls to be paired with three boys who were selected to be trained as the next top pairs figure skaters in the world to represent Canada. I was seven years old. You know, and there's resilience required when you fall on the ice and get dropped by your partner or, you know, or you trip them and, know, like there's the ice is hard. So physically from the start and the club I skated for, they were serious stuff. Duchess (07:55) Right? Yeah. It's nice. Karley (08:04) You know, they had hard rules and there was harsh punishments. You know, if you were showing a bad ad, as we got a little older, I don't want to make it to be something that, you it wasn't. But I remember in, you know, 11 or 12 years old, they're really hard on the boys. It was like, you take care of your partner, you You drop her, you pick her up, you make sure if it's late and we have a late practice, you walk her to her parents' car or you make sure she gets home safe or this or that. So they were tasked with a large amount of responsibility because that's what they needed to be on ice in the competition. So they were training that in all aspects and it was really behavior and values based. So if you stepped outside of the bounds and you showed a bad attitude or by that point, you fall, you swear, you Duchess (08:56) Mm -hmm. Karley (08:57) can't get it right. It was like point to the door and go run 10k. That's your punishment out you go or go run. I can't remember how many ups and downs of the stadium stairs at one of the arenas there was an athletic stadium next door. you you learn to work within the confines of the culture and the box and the structure. And I know that one of your recent episodes was was with a former military personnel and he was talking about the same thing, you know, you grow up and you're step into a structured culture, you carry that with you. And so then sport wise, I went on to some crazy sports like gymnastics on horseback. I have a lot of experience falling. So if you change one word in the word falling, it spells failing. So I think giving yourself permission to fail and fail fast and get up. I mean, You fall off the horse, you get back on the horse, getting off in the middle of a lesson and quitting is not only, can't just leave your horse standing there. It's not an option. being out of my mountain bikes now, I can't just fall and go, well, I've had enough for the day when I'm 10 K from home. Yeah. You get yourself in, you get yourself out. So, yeah. And I, for me, I take so many of my life lessons from the trail and from sport, but I call them lessons from the trail. And Duchess (10:05) You can't tell. Yeah. Karley (10:18) I read a ton of business books, I read a ton of self -help, I just love reading. But the things, I can comprehend them, but I can't viscerally understand them. I'm a very kinesthetic, very visual learner. And so often I'll gain a concept through a book, but then I'll go, I'll be running on the trail and I'll be like, this is what they meant, because I can physically feel it in my body or it makes more sense to me. So I take a lot of what I have learned and what I do learn from the trail and apply it to business. And I truly believe that sport has, has made me a successful entrepreneur because it's built resilience and learning. Duchess (10:54) Hmm, that is so interesting. And so going back to like how you feel those lessons in your body, like kinesthetically, when you're talking to different clients about failing or trying new things, how do you translate that to them if they may not have that sort of background? Like how do you kind of bridge that gap, help them understand Karley (11:15) A lot of the times it's encouraging them to test and measure. What's the next step you need to take or if you're gonna implement this thing, this program, whatever it is, outline yourself a set of steps. When we get ready to go for a run or a bike ride, I don't all of a sudden, well, okay, to be fair, sometimes I'm like, I've had enough, I'm gonna go for a ride. But in my head, I'm like, okay, I've gotta get my bike out, I gotta grab my helmet, I gotta grab my gloves. I need, I'm going to need water. How far am I going? Do I need a toolkit? Do I need the serious toolkit? Like you don't just show up at the trailhead and go, there's things that you need to do. So anytime that my clients are taking on something new, it's, it's, it's giving them a context of where, where are we heading? What's the objective? How are we going to get there? And what are the, what are the basic steps in structure so that you make it from start to end? And then how did it go? I love Duchess (12:13) Hmm. Yeah. Karley (12:14) What worked? What didn't work? What would we leave the same and what would we change or improve? And, you know, that's the thing that I think so often is missed in marketing. It didn't work. okay. Like what didn't work? What if we tweaked this one thing? What if we tweaked three things? Let's try it again. Duchess (12:20) That's nice. Karley (12:38) Same thing with brand. Everybody's like, how do you measure brand? like, well, we can go there if you want, but essentially how you measure brand is people saying what you want them to say about you when you're not in the room. You know, when you hear back from someone, so -and -so referred me or said that I should meet you. I'm always like, how did you meet me? Who referred you? tell me about what you know. So I'm always testing is what I'm putting out there. Duchess (12:59) No. Karley (13:06) landing the way I want it to being received the way I wanted to want it to be received and being put back to me in a you know, it'll always be in that person's words and voice. But is it in alignment with how I want to show up how I want my clients company to show up. So Duchess (13:23) It's like if we tweaked one little thing here or one little thing there, it would have been amazing. But because time and budget and we've tried this before in the past, we don't want to continue to invest in something that's failed or all that. to your point, just measuring it and that continual process of refinement is so important. Just, guess, kind of coming off the heels of that. Using that method, can you think of your biggest, I don't want to scare you with the question. But like a client that is really memorable that you've seen the impact, like really either they didn't follow it at all, like a great success or a great failure, like a client that's kind of hit both of those Karley (14:07) Oof, I can give you both, which one do you want? Duchess (14:10) surprise Karley (14:12) Okay, let's start with the biggest success. The clients of ours that succeed are those that put what we build into action. And so I see it happen so often, be it the business plan, be it the marketing plan, be it the brand plan or brand strategy, however you wanna call it, you build it, you get so excited that it's done. Cause those are all heavy lifts. They all in introspection, they require deep thought, they require a lot of writing. I mean, I'm working on one right now. It's 90 pages. Thank goodness the client and I are collaborating on doing the writing. Like they're heavy lifts for everyone. And so I think folks, I don't want to say they forget, but you know, we get to woohoo, it's done, it's built. This is amazing. Go team. And then, everything that they might've had to set aside to make room for that because, you know, small to mid -sized businesses always have too many things to do. It's not like the plan is linear, stuff comes up, market shifts, it's always evolving and adapting. So they're either mentally or physically making a list or someone else in the company is making a list of, these are the things that didn't get done while you were doing that. Now we've got time for Duchess (15:13) Yes. Karley (15:31) And what I'm trying to instill in them is, a bit of the planning and change management aspect, even though that has, it's not my job, so to speak, but I want to set them up for, okay, so team, what does success look like moving forward? How many meetings do you need to have? How much time needs to be scheduled to do this thing? And effectively it's about practice, right? We practice. What we do every day, if we come back to the, the yoga teacher aspect or the athlete aspect is you get on your mat and you practice, you're not always going to nail that position or it's going to feel different in a different day, but you keep coming back to the mat or you keep coming back to the ice or I keep coming back to my bike in a particular trail that I haven't yet cleaned and mastered. And it's about that iterative practice. so to execute a plan, you might be doing different steps, but you're still iterating. You're still showing up to practice. And so our clients coming back to the success story are really the ones who are committed to the doing, to the practice, to the showing up to make sure that what they've invested in. And it's not just about money. It's about, you know, profit that they're investing to make this happen. It's about the time that people are showing up, the thought process, and sometimes the agony of like, this is, this is hard. Duchess (16:55) Yeah. Karley (16:56) You know, the blood, sweat and tears aspect of it is making sure that that's remembered. So they move towards the plan and, like any, you know, any goal that you want to achieve again, coming back to sport, having a coach, having a training program, tracking your results, come back to testing and measuring again. So our clients, when they implement our methodology of building a brand. They realize that they have a toolkit and they start using it. And what I get most excited about the result that keeps coming back is they're achieving their goal. So if it's a five year goal, they're achieving it in about two and a half years. If it's a two and a half year goal, one of our clients knocked it out of the park and achieved it in eight months. And so I could just get so excited about that acceleration. And really what it is is saying, Hey gang, we're giving you a set of tools. Make sure you use them. And then on the flip side, the ones Duchess (17:50) Yeah. Karley (17:54) haven't succeeded, who have failed, guess what? Guess what they didn't do. Duchess (17:59) the plant. Karley (18:01) Right? They didn't use the tools. They didn't follow the plan. They didn't create the time to practice. Duchess (18:09) Sorry, just writing that down, but that is so like creating time. I mean, I feel like everyone's like, like we don't have time for this. Like if only I time for this and it's just really being intentional and allocating those resources as best you can to get the results that you really want. So just going back to something that you touched upon when you were talking about freedom and defining what freedom means for you, for you in your life, because you've talked about success, what that means for your clients. How have you defined success for yourself? Karley (18:22) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Duchess (18:39) in your personal life, professionally, whatever you feel like answering. Karley (18:43) Great question. You know, you would think a former pro athlete would have a success to find, wouldn't you? I mean, I certainly know what it looks like from a what's the revenue goal and where am I heading? But really success for me means that I can find flow and enjoyment in what I'm doing. One of my strengths finders is the maximizer. So I'm always tweaking the processes so I can squeeze the most out of that. So if, you it's just tightening things up and, Yeah, success is having the ability to choose who I want to work with. And, you know, sometimes in lean times that doesn't always happen. But as you get more aware of who you love to work with, what you love to do, what the processes are for what you love to do, you can really quickly identify what is a right client and project for you. And so I feel like I've really honed that down. And one of my, my ADHD challenges is my clients call me and they'll be like, Hey, we have a Carly problem. And I'm like, okay. And what they're really saying is we need someone to pull us up out of the weeds and help us get from A to B, but it's not always in the heart of what I do. so remembering to be careful about what I choose. And sometimes, sometimes I'm game. Duchess (20:01) Ooh. Karley (20:20) You know, sometimes I'm game to help them figure it out. Cause again, where are they? Where do they want to, where do they want to go? And how are we going to get them there? It's not really my job to tell them. And I, and I work in a mixture of a coaching and consulting model. So I'm down the rabbit hole coming back up to what freedom looks like. It's the freedom to choose those. It's the freedom to, you know, I pinged a friend yesterday cause I have to go up to Whistler, to get my bike measured. And I was like, Hey, do you want to bag off a day with me and go riding in Whistler? And she's like, yes. And I'm like, great, let me find the dates. So it's, it's, it's being able to look ahead and go, I have that opportunity or I can make this opportunity. I'm going to do it. Freedom is making, you know, enough revenue to travel or finding creative ways that, you know, the business can pay for that travel. Freedom Duchess (20:54) Yeah. Karley (21:15) I think working to create freedom for others so people can, I don't want say have the right to choose who they love, but I think you get my vibe. So people still have that freedom because, well, let's not get into politics, but anyways. Yes. So yeah. Duchess (21:35) We live in some strange times. I'll say that. Yeah. But so, and another question that I have for you, because I just, relate so much to the ADHD portion. I mean, I feel like I self -diagnosed. Yeah, just, right? One too many introductions. And I also just hear how you've been able to just so seamlessly blend these different worlds and different loves and organize your time in a way where you can maximize. Karley (21:50) Bye. Duchess (22:04) Maximize all of that. How did you do it? How did you get into the practice of that? Like how are you able to be so specific so you can focus on the things that you truly Karley (22:16) I believe that had I have not been in that figure skating club and been a part of their structure and program and learned it very early, I don't know that if I would be where I am today or without sport of some kind and every sport that I've been a part of. And I'm not saying that there are sports that don't require structure and discipline, but you know, I went from figure skating to equestrian with a high level of responsibility. I own my own horse at 14 or 15. To be responsible for another being is huge when you're going through that phase of life where hormones and school and you're just learning to be a proper human in the world and being responsible for another being. And I was riding. It's funny that for the folks who know horseback riding, this will, this will sound really funny. I was riding an 18 one per Tron thoroughbred cross, effectively a half heavy horse dressage. And I was training him dressage, which is again, a very structured formal sport. So yeah. So lots and lots of discipline has been, and I find myself what I've learned through my reading about trying to understand my brain, whether it is completely. Duchess (23:23) Thank you. Karley (23:38) ADHD, whether it is comorbid with other things, I've always been challenged with anxiety. think part of that is just created from my drive. But it's about if there is not a structure or if I don't create one, I will spin all day long. And so working with a few coaches right now, and I've said to them, I am game for any task, but I really need you to help me build a structure. to do the homework because if you're just like, go create the thing, I'm gonna spin and waste too much time. I'm gonna get frustrated. I'm gonna have a four -year -old meltdown because I can't see it. And that's another thing for me. I think in pictures. it's always interesting to me because we can't see through anybody else's eyes. Often when I'm building something for clients, let's say, Duchess (24:20) Yeah. Karley (24:35) Back in the day when I started my career in design and I still do a bit of it to help clients map things out, I'm helping them map out a website from a strategic point or a tool. I draw boxes and I create a wire frame and they're like, that is such a cool way to do things. like, I don't understand the world if there aren't lines and boxes and structure. I can't operate in the world effectively if there's not structure. So, and that comes right down what you're talking about creating time, time blocking. As soon as I learned that, my gosh. Duchess (25:06) But can you, just, I'm so interested. What is your time blocking process? Because I also need some tips for you. Karley (25:13) Okay. Okay. Well, I'll just talk mine through is we've created like an overarching structure of Mondays and Fridays are on the business or doing days. If we do not, unless it's a special case, book client sessions or large client meetings. If it's a quick catch up of, we need to check in on this so we can roll into it next week, no problem. So, then Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday are our meeting days. And I have some rules around. We typically do max three hour sessions because we know it burns out our clients brains and it burns out our brains. And I don't function well if I and I never are too booked in one day because our clients are not going to get the best of me. We're not going to Mac. There's the maximizer again, right? And so the most I would have in a week is three and three for me is a lot. Like my wife will come home and she'll be like, how many sessions on a Friday and be like, how many sessions did you have this week? And I'm like, yeah, there were three. Cause I am just like my brain is you can see tilt written in my eyes. and so again, coming down to structure, we always try and make those meetings in the front end of the day. So they're either nine to 12, for example, or one to four or 12 to three so that I have space to think and do. Duchess (26:24) So yeah. Karley (26:42) So they're not crossing and killing a day. There's nothing more frustrating than starting something in the middle of the day and what are you gonna do before and after unless you're a super early riser? What else? I always structure my writing and creating time between 6 a and 10 a I know that's when I'm doing my best thinking and doing my best processing. What else? I always make sure that I schedule in my break in the middle of the day. And I make sure that I set recurring things for, not that I'm going right now, because I'm injured, but going to the gym. It's in my calendar, walking the pup. It's in my calendar with lunch, making sure that I know when my wife, Elise, is taking him and when I'm taking him. And so, I mean, a lot of people look at my calendar and are just like, whoa. and find it overwhelming. I find it overwhelming when I don't know what's going on in a day because I can just squirrel all over the place. And sometimes I just leave a day open so I can squirrel because that's when some of my best thinking happens or I just want to get pulled into something. So also leaving yourself space is really, important. And another piece of that is rest. Can't stress sleep enough. I haven't been hitting my eight hour goal lately, but I just, love sleep. Like if some people guard their food, I guard my sleep. And another thing, there's a great book called Peak Performance. And they do exactly what I had figured out was they take lessons from sport and high performance and bring it into business. And one of them is a trainer for athletes. I think it might be running marathon, but I can't remember. But stress plus rest. equals growth. Duchess (28:42) Okay. Karley (28:44) So stress plus stress equals burnout. Duchess (28:49) I've never heard of that. Stress plus rest equals growth. Karley (28:53) Yeah, and that's very much a, if you think about weight workouts, when you are going to the gym and you're lifting to build muscle, not just maintain, you're tearing the fibers of the muscle. The only way that's going to repair itself is if you give it time to heal and then it overlays and builds new muscle. And then you go and you, you know, go do legs on one day, tear them, rest them, do arms the next day, and then alternate. And so you're constantly building these layers upon layers. So stress plus rest equals growth, but it applies to the whole human body, including the brain. Duchess (29:29) Mm -hmm. It's so cool seeing different parallels of things and like, you know, other realms just like nothing is in a silo. It's all connected. That's that's really cool. Karley (29:41) And I would say to your audience, know, they're like, great. I have no interest in sport. You know, I'm kind of starting to check out now because Carly's like sports, sports, sports, sports, athlete, athlete. And I'm, and I'm thinking, you know, if you love knitting, Knitting's got structure. What, what works for you? What frustrates you? What have you learned? You know, not every needle works for everything or, you know, insert your passion and think about, well, what have you learned about gaming? Duchess (30:04) Yeah. Karley (30:11) Where have you failed? How do you apply that to life? How do you win at life? How do you win at business? Duchess (30:13) Yeah. That is so true. I mean, I don't know if this is going to be edited out, but Ari and I were actually having conversation a little bit earlier and I was telling him how I also act on the side. And so for me, the parallels with just communicating with people, I never knew until I really took acting more seriously and just understood myself more and then other. It's so interesting how everything is connected. Anywho, back to you. Karley (30:44) No, I love that. Now I'm curious. Talk to me a little bit more about the communicating. I mean, it's such a big topic, but how does that show up and make you a better actor? mean, it's like kind of one of those, could be a high thanks Captain Obvious, but I think it's deeper than Duchess (30:56) I know. No, but it is. it's like, it's one of those things where, so for me, I went through a period of time where I was trying to learn different acting elements and different techniques. And so there are some things that just work better than others, but like fundamentally, the ability to be present and to be able to respond in time with the person you're talking to is just so fundamental. And then also the fearlessness to try something new in the moment with said person. I mean, I've, it's helped me just look at opportunities differently and just be like, I'm interested. Why not? You know, instead of just think of, maybe I have to be the perfect candidate or if I have the interest and the passion and I'm there, why not? So that's something I've been learning recently. Karley (31:40) Yeah, yeah, as women, we're just expected to show up perfectly all the time. Can we just kick that, you know what, to the curb? Please, can we just leave it in the back drawer, you know, maybe the back shed somewhere? Go look at it once in a while and be like, I remember that. yeah, remember like the bad haircut in grade 12? You're like, ooh, you know, let's just put that back in the box. Duchess (31:50) Ugh. It's just so scary. lord. Yep. I will never forget I was in the fifth grade and my mother, God bless her, I love her. But I had these like short, short black braids like and I just looked like an Oompa Loompa. I looked like an Oompa Loompa. I was cute, but I looked like an Oompa Loompa. So giving Oompa Loompa realness all fifth grade. Karley (32:20) You know, cute for the Oompas, not so much for Duchess. Duchess (32:23) Yeah, she's different now. She's grown. Yeah. But so one thing I did really, when it comes to creativity in the corporate workspace, I've never, not that I don't think that they can't exist, but it's just one of those things that I feel like is its own skill set. And it's just, for me, I've always found it counterintuitive. Like how do you discipline yourself to create. You know what I mean? Like how do you harness the skill of creativity when it's creativity is so spontaneous? So for you, how have you been able throughout your career work on that skill? Karley (33:07) It's funny as you're asking that question, I'm like, am I creative? Because I create processes for everything. Duchess (33:16) And that's another thing every creative I asked this is like am I really creative and it's like yes you are Karley (33:22) No, no, know I am, it's, I think the way I would explain it is, anytime I've seen brilliance developed and a lot of the, if I think back to the creative awards when I was back in like big agency world, almost in the Mad Men days, the best campaigns came out Duchess (33:42) Hmm Karley (33:49) the tightest restraints, which was often for your nonprofits. Now, the kind of cool thing about that is small budget was almost always the restraint or no budget because we're doing this, you know, pro bono. But then there was this permission to be as creative as you wanted. But I also think it was necessary. Like you get this teeny tiny box that you need to fit into. My solution to that is, you know, pushing all arms and legs against the edge of the box and going, how far can I stretch this before it breaks, AKA before I get a no? Like, or how can I cut a little window here and a little door there and get the client to say yes? You know, that's the creativity is finding a way to the yeses in an unexpected way. taking what you've learned from another industry or a different type of project in the bigger picture from a different discipline and applying it here. And to me, that's what innovation is all about. mean, some would argue that innovation is truly something new. They would say that's augmentation. Let's not get into the argument of that, but augmenting, innovating, creating is, I think, the ability to look at things differently. And I don't know if, because I certainly do not have a linear brain, but I question if those with a linear brain are the ones that struggle with creativity, because they're literally following, know, engineers following the bouncing ball for good reason, because bridges should not fall down. Right? So yeah, and I mean, linear brains are needed, and so are those that are nonlinear. Duchess (35:33) Yeah. Yeah. That would suck. Karley (35:44) Bring those two together and there's, and that's, think the other thing in creativity is who else can you bring into this? Are you open to other people's ideas? So again, I think when on the opposing side of that, the worst ideas and the worst campaigns are just when people are given too much freedom. Cause they wander too far off into the forest. I'm sorry, where did that, what, what, what, what? Duchess (35:50) Hmm. Yeah, I was just thinking like, because you're so right, I've heard this with other innovators and you know, like, it's always among the like the smallest constraints, they make some of the most life changing life altering things. But like, I also have to think about your multimillion dollar, like businesses that have the budget to be big. And so they think we have the resources, we have that unlimited potential, let's go for it. But what is it? How do you even So have you had clients like that where you've had too much resources and it's like, how do you find that same brilliance? Karley (36:45) No. No, haven't had any clients like that. The zone I play in is small to mid -sized businesses. So they're always stealing from the profit pot to implement this new thing that terrifies them, but they know they need to do it or they've come crashing down or something shifted and they need to make quick changes. their hand in a way, they're either making a conscious choice because Duchess (36:53) Yes, yes, Yeah. Karley (37:13) want to change something or grow something or achieve more results or their hand is being forced by an external thing, you know, the pandemic. I mean, I worked on so many pivots during the pandemic with clients. I I thought I was gonna be sitting around twiddling my thumbs and people were calling me going, okay, help, I need to pivot. And that's why I'm so grateful to have, you know, moved from being a graphic designer in the initial parts of my career up to a creative director and to a strategist is now I get to play in the really interesting part is how do take this business and turn it around. Duchess (37:45) So just going back to that, that's so true. How have you defined strategy for yourself? Like what are some hallmarks of a good strategy that you've seen in your career? Karley (37:57) I the first most important thing for our audience is to say that strategy has been made over complicated. So many things have been clouded and over complicated. So I think to hold people back, to hold people down, to make them think that, you can't understand this. So let's talk about what I believe strategy is. It's getting above, getting out of the weeds, being able to see the reality of where we are now. and see that bigger picture and go, where do we want to go? And the strategy is the, are we going to get there? There's never one strategy, just like there's never one solution, but it's defining, well, if we know what the outcomes are, we know what we want to achieve, we know what success looks like for our company, what is the strategy that's going to get us there? in alignment with our purpose, our values, AKA guiding principles, who we are and how we want to make people feel, and what's going to get us closer to or closest to our three to five year vision. And funny enough, I even just as I was saying that it was so natural to me because that's exactly what I built. I built what's called the surefire strategy and I help our clients get clear on what their purpose is beyond making a profit, what their values are, where they're headed in a five year, three to five year term, what is their company gonna look like, short to midterm vision, and how do they wanna show up? How they wanna make people feel and what's their tone of voice? And so if you can choose a strategy that says, yes, we're gonna achieve it, being in alignment with all those things, to me, that's a successful strategy. Just a shiny object, if it's a squirrel that's gonna move us farther from achieving our vision, don't do it. If it's grading against you and makes you feel uncomfortable and you realize it's in contrast to one or more of our values, don't do it. And that goes for people as well. It applies in the corporate world for a personal brand, for a thought leader brand, same thing. Know what your purpose is, know your why, know what you stand for, what the deal breakers are, know how you want to show up in the world, and know where you're going. And don't let anything compromise that. Not a strategy, not a tactic, not a job, not a boss, not a partner. Duchess (40:42) And so, as, my, was, no, no, I was just about to say, like all of that makes so much sense. And I think because it makes so much sense, it's also kind of terrifying because it's like, well, of course you would do that. But when you're in it, when you're living it, when you have that partner or that boss or that tactic that C -suite wants you to put, all of these things that don't necessarily align with that, that vision. Karley (40:43) Way easier said than done. Sorry, I cut you off. You Duchess (41:12) My next question is just like, how do you work around that fear? Like how do you make those tough choices and go for it knowing that it's in alignment, but not everyone else might be able to see it Karley (41:27) Yeah, mean, the first thing is, you know, first thing is awareness, right? Like, why doesn't this feel right? Why am I miserable? Why am I like an exploring and coming back to self? And if you're finding that, wow, I don't do that, is really moving into doing some study on EQ and self -awareness. Because what happens is, is you pick up when things are misaligned or feeling uncomfortable. or just simply not right, you pick up on them much quicker. So you can pull the rip cord a lot sooner. And that's a lot less painful in everyone. It's that dragging on and procrastinating and it makes it worse and just weighs you down. But it's not easy having those boundaries in place. Yeah, it's hard to go, okay, I'm out and this is why. Duchess (42:00) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Karley (42:23) That guts. That takes practice. There's that word Duchess (42:29) Yeah. Karley (42:33) You know, and we've all stayed in relationships too long. I've done it in business relationships. I've done it in personal relationships, done it in client relationships. You know, you know when you need to go, you just got to, you got to armor up and have the hard conversation. Duchess (42:44) I'm sorry. That is so true. You do know when you need to go. And it's that, man, as you were saying, it's just like having that conversation, being able to take that next step, that's just so challenging. And it's in a weird way. It's kind of refreshing that everyone along the totem pole kind of feels the exact same thing. know, like from as you're starting out to like C -suite, like everyone kind of knows. So it's just the courage to be able to go for Karley (43:11) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. And I think one of the big things is we're not alone. Is building the scaffolding of people who will hold you up when things get tough or the winds pick up or can ground you down when you feel that you can't stand in your own truth. And who will call you out or hold you accountable. Hey, you said you were gonna have this conversation two weeks ago. What's going Duchess (43:23) Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. Karley (43:47) You know, and you need the people who are tough love, that tends to be a thing that I'm good at, and you need the people that are going to be empathetic and finding that balanced team, circle of friends, mentors, mastermind group around you. When you have, you know you have good people to fall back into, to lean on, to debrief with. It gets a lot easier knowing, okay, if I screw this up, they're going to pick me up. They're going to pick me up when I fall on my face. Duchess (44:15) Yeah. Karley (44:17) Cause you know, who wants to pick themselves up when they've fallen on their face? I've literally done it trail running. Thankfully, the day that I Superman myself, I had an ER doc and an ER nurse who I was running with. And I can tell you lessons from the trail, always run with medical staff, always, always be surrounded by people you trust. Duchess (44:27) much. Yeah. that's funny. How I just, the Superman is, I mean, that's insane. Like that's so cool. How were you able to train for that? Do it? I mean, you've been a cyclist athlete all your life, but like what made you say, let me go for that goal. Karley (44:54) Is this the way I'm wired? And I think legit, I'm addicted to the dopamine hit. I'm addicted to the high, right? Like I said, I'm injured right now and I was being good for a while because I've either torn my meniscus or my MCL in my knee and I've never torn a ligament before. And let me tell you, it's a whole other pain and weirdness sense of hurt. so I was committed. to being good and just like, okay, I'm gonna let my body heal. And then four weeks in, I'm like, okay, I need to get back on my bike again. Okay, I'm losing my mind. Okay, I'm just getting, I'm being an angry, cranky, crusty, around the edges person. Because I am so used to, my physiology is so used to that physical release and that physical challenge and being like, I call it raising the roof, getting out of the office and just letting my mind, Duchess (45:26) and Yeah. Karley (45:53) go, my subconscious mind go do its thing while I hone in and focus on, you know, not Supermanning myself on the trail and sending myself over my handlebars or, you know, and paying attention to being completely in the moment. And I think that's why I love the sports I do. You can't do anything, any sport that I've done and not be completely in the moment because the consequences are way too high. So there's, there's this physiology in me that needs those things. And Duchess (46:16) Yeah, wow. Karley (46:23) You know, I didn't just go back to biking. went out and bought a whole new bike. So, so let's just hope I don't injure myself many more times because it's going to get really expensive. Duchess (46:35) I so I'm looking at the time. I want to be respectful of yours I have one final question for you, but I just have to say if this has been Such a pleasure you were a light so amazing to talk to you If you were to go back to and I always ask this question because I just think it's fun to your different people's responses But if you were to go back to you just starting out your first job straight out of wherever and you have to give yourself some Advice that you know has changed not just your career your life Karley (46:46) Thank Duchess (47:04) What would you have said to yourself? Karley (47:09) I'm laughing because I think about the me going into agencies. I was pretty cocky. I knew I was good. At the same time, I had a real balance of imposter syndrome. So I think that kind of kept it balanced, but I would really tell myself. Duchess (47:17) Mm -hmm. Mm. Karley (47:35) to understand what I needed to practice, to take what I had learned from sport, because it wasn't till I got on the trails and really started having these epiphany aha moments of, know, pick the trails that have the view at the top so the climb's gotta be worth the descent, right? Like taking those lessons and using what I learned in my physicality and applying them to business. And I think taking risks sooner. I think everybody around me thinks that I take risks pretty quickly. But as one of my friends said to me once, she goes, you know what? She goes, she goes, she drives me crazy. She goes, it looks like you just climb up the high dive for the first time and off you go. And you just like off, you know, off that high dive, go no scare, no fear. And she goes, even if there's no water in the pool, she's like, you walk out, like you don't break yourself. You walk out. And I'm like, she goes, but what I really know. as you walk around that pool and you go up and down that ladder and you stand on the edge of the high dive when nobody else is around and you do it about a thousand times. And I'm like, yes, I Duchess (48:40) Yeah, that is so nice. Thank you so much for your time. It's been so amazing talking to you. I have pages of notes for myself. thank you. So I really appreciate it. Karley (48:50) Thank you for being such a fabulous host. You make it easy.